Sources for matching parts?

[Don M]

I have a Weimar Police Alpha DWM with all matching parts except for the trigger and the rear toggle pin (axle?). Are there sources for miscellaneous parts? In this case, I need parts with S/N "99".

Don

[wterrell]

Don M,
The practice of replacing broken or non-matching parts with match numbered parts does not reflect the true value of the pistol and presents quite an ethical question.
Please reconsider.

[John Sabato]

...Thank you WES,

For Don M, (& all new or old members with similar questions),

Please allow me to preface these remarks by explaining that what follows is my OPINION ... that I believe is shared by the majority (but certainly not all) of the Luger collecting and shooting community...

There is much controversy about the replacement of parts by Luger collectors, shooters and owners...and it's impact on market and collector value...enough so that it often causes very heated discussions... <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />

Perhaps as a new user, some explanation might be in order regarding a definition of "all matching" parts with regards to Lugers and many other types of firearms...

It is not the "number" stamped into the metal that makes the parts "all matching"...

All matching parts are those parts that left the factory as an original assembled unit...and they should be, in most cases (but not all), numbered correctly to match the last two digits of the serial number at the time of manufacture because they had each been hand fitted by a gunsmith craftsman.

Obtaining parts to replace those that do not currently "match" with parts from another Luger that have the specific number you are seeking will not return your Luger to it's orginal state...since parts with the correct last two digits were theoretically manufactured as many as 26 or more times during every year that the Luger was produced... restoration of appropriately numbered parts cannot change the "matching" status of your Luger.

If replacing the mismatched parts with different parts displaying the serial number "99" will somehow make you feel better about your Luger , then by all means, do so...

But if your intent is to raise the legitimate value of your Luger, that can't be done unless you could somehow obtain the "original" missing parts and put them back... a feat not likely to occur with a military firearm that is over 60 years old...that is just one specimen of a pistol produced in the millions. To sell such a Luger to another collector, shooter, or prospective owner as "all matching" after such a conversion without providing the new owner with the information that this had been done... would be what is commonly referred to as "boosting" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> in the collector community, and some go so far as to call it fraud.

I trust this explanation and definition has been helpful. <img border="0" alt="[icon107]" title="" src="graemlins/icon107.gif" />

<img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" /> &lt;soapbox mode off&gt;

[Don M]

I stand appropriately chastised and informed. I'm glad to know that the Luger community subscribes to a high standard of ethics. My question is withdrawn!

Don

[John Sabato]

Don, please don't interpret what I have written as a chastisement... but merely an attempt to educate new folks about the atmosphere of the Luger collecting community...

If you choose to, then seek the parts that you wish... but if you pass that Luger on to someone else... then please make sure that they are appropriately informed about it's status...

As to your comment about the high standards of ethics in the Luger community? Ethics are a personal characteristic... and unfortunately not all in the community subscribe to such high principles, but you will find that the membership here is, in general, a very respectable bunch... IMNSHO, if you can't stand for the truth... why bother getting up in the first place

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

[Frank]

Don M, main toggle pins were only numbered after 1932. That means all Mausers and some Krieghoff Lugers should have numbered pins. If you have a pin that isn't numbered it is probably original!!

[G.W. Gill]

Don M, It is fun to look for the tool and holster that match. The soldiers cleaned thier weapons as a group. It is just natural they got switched around. They had three bowls of solvent and a tube or tub of lube...

[Edward Tinker]

I agree with true matching guns, BUT, in the luger field the exact orginal parts is a big deal, in other pistol collecting field it is not as frowned upon. I am not saying it is not frowned upon, but in Colt collecting, SSA, 1911, in old Winchesters, etc., if a part gets replaced it is simply replaced. I think, mainly because it is hard to prove, luger parts are numbered.

And there must be a lot of "collectors" who want to replace their parts, cuz e-bay sure is a hot-spot for unnumbered parts, and also numbered parts...

[Don M]

Frank,

The consensus from an earlier thread on this gun is that it was manufactured in about 1927, originally as a commercial model and barreled or rebarreled for the police. The parts are stamped in the military manner (exposed). The toggle pin and trigger are also stamped but with different numbers, so the originals must have been been swapped around a campfire at some point. Oh, well!!!!

Don

[Lugerdoc]

Don, Sorry that I don't currently have a #99 DWM trigger to offer at the moment. I don't mind collector' "boosting" a shooter into a matching collectable, so long as the replaced originally numbered part is from the original manufacturer, of the same era, with the correct die sized & style number. At worst, the pistol should be classified as restored back to as issued matching condition. But I do have a problem with those who advertise as matching, a luger with renumbered parts or those with incorrect "matching" parts. TH

[Ron Smith]

Tom, Check your PMs. Ron

[Jesse]

To me matching should be ALL original parts! I think "Matched" non-original but right numbers is just as bad as any other fakes because at some point down the road it will be passed of as "all original". There is always exception to this though, if the Germans replaced the parts during whatever era it was in or a later police/military rework would still hold historical value. Now with that said I would conceder the Luger you have now to be more "authentic" the way it is now simply because the less these guns are chanced the more "original they are. Please do not be offended by anything I have said because I'm just expressing my opinion on this matter. Ultimately the value of what you have is what it means to you.

Jesse