Gonzo Long Barreled P08 Project

[sheepherder]

Disclaimer: I am not a craftsman or an artisan; I'm not a gunsmith or master machinist. I'm just a blue-collar gun hack. My work is crude and minimalist; no frills, no polish, nothing to be especially proud of. I don't have the years or thousands of dollars to wait for a master craftsman to make me what I want. So, I do it myself. It's not beautiful, but as the bard says, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". I can look at 50 feet of railroad track and think it's beautiful. Like National Lampoon has proclaimed: "Creosote is King!"


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This is the latest in my series of Gonzo long barreled military handguns. The previous two being based on the profile, dimensions, and rear sight of the LP-08 'Artillery' Luger pistol. This one is actually based on the P08 Luger, but the barrel will be longer than the 'artillery' model, and the rear sight selection is still undecided.

This particular project was inspired by a 'prototype' 7.63 C96 Mauser-chambered conversion done by Herbert Werle some time back and sold on Hermann-Historica. It uses a shortened 7.65 caliber Mauser rifle barrel with OEM front and rear rifle sights, adapted to the Luger frame, and re-chambered. I kind of liked the idea, but the sights are a bit too big for me, and I'm not fond of stepped barrels.

Here's two pics of Werle's excellent conversion -





I'm going to emulate his idea, but slightly different.

First pic is of some of the available parts I have on hand.



Two barrels are Remington 700 30-06 cal barrels; one is a Winchester 30-06 Mod 70. The resulting long barrel Luger will be chambered in 7.65 Parabellum [30 Luger]. The top [Winchester] barrel has already been fitted with several rear sight assemblies. The top pic has an 1891 Argentine Mauser carbine rear sight fitted. The front sight and band is from the 1891 Mauser carbine as well. Shown below that barrel is an FN M24/30 Mauser carbine rear sight, a Luger artillery rear sight with two different dovetail mounts, and a Martini Cadet rear sight.

The [Winchester] barrel shown with the 1891 Carbine sights mounted has already been chambered for 7.65 Parabellum and threaded to fit the Luger P-08 receiver pictured.

Next pic is of the above mentioned barrel with the 1891 carbine rear sight mounted [top] and the FN rear sight [below]



Both will fit (22mm barrel) as will the dovetail mount in the pic above this one. At this point, I am leaning toward the 1891 Carbine sight but the FN Carbine sight is more attractive and quite similar to the Luger Artillery rear sight in construction. I'm considering shortening both the sight leaf and the mount and utilizing that sight.

The four pics consolidated below show the first stages of the barrel machining.



(1) Barrel segment is approximately 13" long, and has been turned to 19.5mm [.768"] dia for the rear sight band and the breech stub is being turned/threaded to ~.709" dia/20tpi thread.
(2) Breech being faced off and clearance cut for receiver, length of .740".
(3) Beginning cutting the 7.65 Parabellum chamber. Clymer reamer, 1/32" cuts, lots of high-Sulphur content cutting oil, back out & blow chips off every 1/32" cut.
(4) Chamber rough finish cut. Chamber will be hand cut for headspace after torquing to the receiver.

Edit: Numrich has a listing for the base for my Martini 310 Cadet rear sight [shown below on a base]. I ordered one, and if it works, I'm thinking of using that rather than the Mauser/Luger tangent sights. It's both elevation and drift adjustable.

[sheepherder]

I could not find a Martini rear sight, so I decided to go with the shortened FN carbine sight.



(5) Rough chambering for 7.65 Parabellum pretty much finished.
(6) Cutting back the shoulder for sight base 'sleeve' mounting.
(7) Sectioning the FN carbine rear sight base/sleeve.



(8) Shortened FN carbine rear sight base/sleeve, shortened barrel shoulder.
(9) Barrel re-tapered, rough cut.
(10) Taper section polished, muzzle tip turned down for threading.
(11) Front sight base blank being faced off.

[sheepherder]

Pretty boring stuff now, but I include it for continuity...



(12) Drilling out sight base blank.
(13) Tapping sight base blank to 1/2" x 28tpi.
(14) Threading muzzle tip to 1/2" x 28tpi. Bevel linking barrel taper to rear sight base is also cut (10º).
(15) Completed thread.

Next up is torquing the barrel down, machining a locating flat on the barrel, and machining the front sight base & band.



(16) Front sight base blank fitted to muzzle thread.
(17) Barrel has been torqued into receiver; flat milled on top of rear sight hood.
(18) Spirit method of indexing the barrel to the receiver using the milled flat.
(19) Flat is now milled on top of leveled front sight blank. This is how I'll level the front sight with the receiver.



(20) Front sight blank has been trimmed on the bandsaw and mounted on an old M16 barrel stub. Beginning to mill it round.
(21) A look at the somewhat clumsy setup. What a PITA! Cranking the indexing head ~270º every .040". And I got the crank in an awkward position...
(22) Close-up of the first couple of revolutions, milling the muzzle relief.
(23) Completed the circular cutting; now to mill the sight base.



(24) Switched from a short 1/4" 4-flute end mill to a long one. Base/band came out pretty nice.
(25) Close-up of last cut.
(26) Close-up of base/band installed [loosely].



Side view of how it might look...If I don't screw it up...

[sheepherder]

I now find that I need to make a keyhole spanner to torque my front sight base on & off with...Using 5/8" aluminum plate, hole bored to ~.640" and a ~.290" slot...



(27) Hole was drilled to 1/2", slot milled, and hole bored out to ~5/8"+.
(28) Closeup of front sight base in keyhole spanner.
(29) Torquing the front sight base to the barrel with the keyhole spanner. Spirit levels used to align the two.
(30) Spanner removed; checking level again with level on top flat of front sight base.

Next up is facing off the muzzle and crowning.




(31) Muzzle face has been turned in lathe, slight chamfer cut on edge of muzzle, crown being cut.
(32) Barrel has been torqued on receiver/barrel extension; rear sight located, holes drilled for #4-40 screws, front sight base torqued on, hole drilled for #4-40 setscrew and being tapped in this pic.
(33) Angle plate has been mounted on mill table at 58º; barrel has been removed from receiver/barrel extension and leveled in barrel vise clamp; bolted perpendicular to table in preparation of milling extractor notch.
(34) Making first extractor cut with .093" Woodruff keyseat cutter.



(35) Second extractor cut with .200" Woodruff keyseat cutter.
(36) Cutting feed ramp with 10mm end mill. Barrel held in barrel vise clamps which are in turn held in angle vise set at 50º. My thanks to Gerry Tomek for his sleuth work in determining the correct angle!
(37) Just a closeup of the finished ramp cut.
(38) Torquing the receiver on the barrel again, to check extractor clearance in receiver/barrel extension.

I've received a donor frame, I'll be prepping that for a forearm lug soon. Couple other things need doing on the barrel, plus the rear sight leaf needs shortening. Always something.

Interlude

Off-topic, but worth relating...I was milling an aluminum block square earlier in the week, idly watching the end mill spin around in the spindle and the feed table move slowly along, keeping an occasional eye on the TV on the shelf above me, when the air compressor in the corner suddenly kicked in...It took about half a second for me to lunge forward and disengage the feed before the circuit breaker cut power to the 3in1 mill...The 3in1 has two 8.8A motors, one for the mill spindle and the other for the lathe/table feed...The compressor motor is 15A...All plugged into a 12/2 w/gnd wired circuit with a 20A breaker...

So today I ran 10/2 w/gnd to the 3in1 with a 30A breaker and moved the compressor to a 20A breaker. I usually know enough to run the compressor and build up a reserve and switch it off before running the 3in1, but this time I forgot. If the power cuts off while I'm cutting with the feed on, it can be disastrous to the workpiece and expensive to replace the broken cutter. Better to be safe now than sorry later.

Here's the finished breech - Extractor notch cut; feed ramp milled; barrel torqued in place.

[sheepherder]

When I received my donor frame, a ~1939-era Mauser 'humpback', I test-fit my 1917 'cannon' assembly on it...It 'bound' in the rear frame 'ear' area. Measurements showed about .010" of squish-in. Maybe from being dropped, or some previous owner trying to 'accurize' it, or maybe just from the heat-treat during manufacture. I didn't want to try bending 70+ year old hardened steel, and .010" isn't all that much, so I decided to use progressively finer grits of lapping compound to take it down. Starting with very coarse valve grinding compound, finishing up with auto body polishing compound. Worked excellently!





Next up was to fabricate a 'lug' for the forearm I'll be installing. This will be somewhat like a Luger carbine forearm.



(39) Sawing the lug out of steel bar, milling all sides flat and parallel.
(40) Milling top flat and parallel.
(41) Milling bottom flat and parallel.
(42) Semi-finished lug.



(43) Rube Goldberg jig/fixture to hold lug in position for drilling & tapping frame.
(44) Center drilling the lug.
(45) Drilling for #4-40 screw.
(46) Tapping the drilled hole. This will hold the lug in position while being soldered.



(47) Lug has been positioned for silver-soldering.
(48) Lug has been silver-soldered in position, using Brownell's Silvalloy 355 and Wolverine Ultra Flux. This turned out to be a mistake. This solder has too high a melting point for a procedure like this, despite Brownell's claims/ads. I should have followed my instincts/experience and gone down to my local welding shop and bought some low-melting point brazing rod. It's been 30+ years since I've done any brazing/silver-soldering and I've forgotten most of What Works. This is on now, and I just hope it sticks.
(49) Milling off the attaching/positioning screw head.
(50) Re-drilling the takedown lever spring drift hole.

Next step will be to trim the excess solder and start fitting the wood for the forearm.

[sheepherder]

Most of the excess silver-solder has been filed/milled off, and now I want to check out how to fit the forearm wood. My woodworking skills are minimal, so I'm going to practice on at least one scrap piece of wood before I sacrifice a rifle stock for my forearm.



(51) Scrap piece of 2x4 soft Pine.
(52) Fully inletted and ready to trial fit.
(53) Not bad. A bit oversized, but acceptable.
(54) Closeup of inletted forearm with lug fitted.



Side view of mockup forearm, off and on. Doesn't look like much, does it? Took me about four hours to get it this far. Shame I didn't have a piece of nice Walnut instead of Pine, but them's the breaks. I'll have to mill out the rifle stock donor piece differently, since it won't be squared-off like this nice piece is. I have a couple old sawed-off buttstock pieces, rounded off, I'll have to think up a way to hold them in the vise for inletting.

Dug out a couple of old Walnut stocks from my 'parts box'. Top is 3/4 of an Ithaca Model 37 shotgun stock, bottom is [IIRC] a buttstock for the MAC-10, which I never owned but thought the stock might come in handy [Numrich of course]. I'm just squeezing the buttstock half between two plywood pieces in my vise...It seems to hold it OK. I'd rather I had a squared-off piece of hardwood, but for the little I need, this might work...maybe...



(55) Ithaca on top; MAC-10 on bottom. Mildewed, and Ithaca has a 3/4" hole drilled through it for the bolt.
(56) Fully 'inletted' with metal working end mills. I don't have any woodworking tools. I'm not a woodworker (as will become apparent).
(57) Inletted mockup placed on stripped frame/action. Profile needs to be taken down quite a bit and shaped, but this is just a practice forearm - the 3/4" bolt groove leaves too much gap on barrel sides. Other half of Ithaca buttstock will be Forearm Attempt #1...
(58) 1st Attempt at an actual Walnut forearm. Barrel channel and rear sight cavity have been milled out with a 5/8" ball end mill. This is the other half of the Ithace Model 37 shotgun buttstock, without the 3/4" bolt hole through it.



(59) Fully inletted forearm blank. Came out pretty good, although again, a lengthy tedious process.
(60) Top & side views; wood has yet to be pared down to desired profile. That comes next.
(61) Top view comparing Ithaca bolt hole (my barrel channel) with 1st Attempt barrel channel. The 1st Attempt is ~5/8" whereas the Ithaca bolt hole is ~3/4". Doesn't look like it, but it makes a big difference. I'll continue practicing on the 3/4" channel forearm blank for now.
(62) I've done a bit of mill-profiling on the 3/4" channel blank. Starting to look like a forearm.

My next step will be trying to figure out a way to hold the inletted forearm so that I can file/sand the squared edges. I'm thinking of an aluminum bar that fits tightly into the lug slot and extends beyond the ends. Have to check and see what I've got.

I found an old piece of 1/2" aluminum bar/plate and milled it to be a snug fit in the forearm inletting. Now I can clamp the inletted forearm in the vise for more milling, I'm working on the '1st Attempt' forearm here; the one with the tight 5/8" barrel channel.



(63) Using a 5/8" end mill to cut the 'Schnabel' curl. Also milling the taper on each side of the forearm.
(64) Milling the bottom of the forearm, up to the curl.
(65) Flipped over; scrap piece of aluminum & a shim in forearm, milling the top flat.
(66) Top view showing taper; side view showing profile.

Waiting for new end mills, cutters, and other miscellaneous tooling, so I'm switching over to the rear sight modifications.

[sheepherder]

I'm using the M24/30 FN Mauser carbine rear sight but I'm going to shorten the sight leaf. I found out the hard way that it is hardened. Anyway, after cleaning up pieces of broken end mills, I managed to use a Carbide end mill to mill the end and pivot slot of the sight leaf.



(67) Slot is already milled; milling end down.
(68) Shortened sight leaf on left; original sight assembly on right for comparison.
(69) This is why I hate micro-machining. I can barely see what I'm doing [which is milling .014" off each side of the pivot ears] and I can't get any feedback from the big heavy toolholder/vise/table feed. This is a 1/8" Carbide end mill.
(70) Another part I hate: Filing the square-cut ears round. My files are barely hard enough to cut the hardened sight leaf. Lots of filing and fitting; I want it to work, but also minimize the gaps. This ain't no work for an old man.

Next I need to cut the FN carbine sight ramp down to match the shortened sight leaf. This is a complicated procedure, involving calculating the bullet weight & shape, the powder charge and powder composition, the barrel length and rifling twist, bullet drop in meters, the curvature of the earth, local variations in gravity, Pythagorean theorem, Sine, Cosine, Tangents...Ah, screw it. I'm just going to make a flattened ramp.



(71) Milling down the back of the ramp to match the height of the barrel extension.
(72) The FN Mauser spring is way too strong for my taste; it's ~1/4" wide x .040" thick...so I dip into Brownell's flat spring assortment, the thinnest is .030", so I'll use that.
(73) The Brownell's flat spring stock is .500" wide, so I mill it down to ~.025". I clamped it to a piece of scrap aluminum.
(74) Finished spring shown next to FN Mauser spring. Next is to harden it.

I have other things going on at the same time as I work on this; some use different jigs/fixtures/vises, so I'll be jumping around on the machining...

I'm going to mill the front sight base down and cut the dovetail. I've clamped the barrel assembly between plywood boards to get a 'soft' clamp, and use a reinforcing rod in the bore just to be safe.



(75) Barrel/sight base is leveled and squared; ready to cut down.
(76) Sight base has been shortened/milled ~.250".
(77) 1/8" x .100" slot milled in center for dovetail.
(78) 40º dovetail cut into sight base, .100" deep. It is .197" wide at base.

I'll be making a sight blade for it next. I'm debating making it out of Delrin or steel...I may do both. The Delrin is quicker to make and can be slightly wider in the dovetail since it has some elasticity, which would make it easier to adjust and also stay fixed in position...

I've sawn a blank out of a piece of scrap steel. This will be the front sight blade.



(79) Milling the bottom of the steel blank.
(80) Milling the 40º dovetail.
(81) Sight blank has been pressed into the dovetail in the barrel. Now I am milling the sides flat and level with the front sight base.
(82) All four sides milled flat and level. I hate machining anything this fragile. One mistake trashes hours/days of work.



(83) Milling the sides of the sight to form a blade .120" wide. Using a radius end mill.
(84) Milling the sight blade at an angle to mimic the Finnish front sight blades used on Finnish Lugers and Lahtis.
(85) Mockup of barrel assembly and unfinished forearm. It looks odd.

[sheepherder]

To all interested members who have wondered if this project has died, it has not. It is temporarily on hold until such time as finances and interest resume.

A member of the other forum approached me about a project that ended in a major disaster some years ago. He wanted a 9mm Walther P1 barrel liner removed and a 30 Luger stepped liner installed. I did a test barrel and it worked out very well. I then did two more and managed to burn out a set of HSS drill bits and a reamer. I upgraded to Cobalt and the next one turned out quite acceptable. I've done several more. Still waiting for a review.

[sheepherder]

...Sometimes, it just won't work...

I thought it would be neat to make my P-08 rear toggle knobs 'dished', like the M1900 toggle knobs. So, I took measurements from side-on and top-on photos and figured out that the 'dishes' were cut 10º from the vertical axis. I also figured that to give me a straight-in cut with my end mill, I need to angle my mill vise 16 1/2º from the horizontal axis. My vise is adjustable, so that took care of the 16 1/2º, and I made up a fixture to hold the toggle at the required 10º [Pic below].

I had previously test-fit various shot glasses, jelly jars, lids for whatever I had that used lids, and determined the diameter of the M1900 dish to be 50mm/~2". My biggest end mill is 1 1/2", used to mill off flash on AR-15 lower receivers. Anything bigger would run several hundreds of dollars, which I wasn't eager to spend for 'dishes'. The 1 1/2" end mill would have to do.

When I got it all completed and set up, it didn't look right. After many years of machining, I have a rough eye for what I am doing. This wasn't right.

It turns out the M1900 toggle/knobs are .150" wider than the P-08 knobs. That threw my straight-in measurement off. I'd need to increase my angle. But then the dish wouldn't be right - the cutter is too small for the narrower knobs. The dish wouldn't look right.

I could mill the dish flat, instead of concave. But that's not right either.

In the end, I shelved the 'toggle dishing project' due to lack of tooling. A few days wasted making the fixture and taking measurements.

Sometimes you eat the bear...Sometimes the bear eats you...

[sheepherder]

First pic -

While pawing through my tool collection I noticed I had a 1 1/2" carbide tipped dovetail cutter left over from some obscure one-time project...So I decided to have another go at dishing the toggle knobs...

The toggle chosen is one left over from some other project <sigh>. I clamped my 'fixture' in my mill vise and 'bored' the toggle dishes. Time consuming and fairly apprehensive, as I had visions of carbide inserts flying around the shop...

But it turned out OK, machining-wise. Still the wrong diameter, and leaving enough metal for the rail contact surface didn't allow much to be machined off, but at least the concept is proven.

I guess that the bear and I are about even on this one.

Second pic -

I was contacted by a forum member who was interested in a 'dished' toggle, so I ordered a carbide shell end mill cutter plus arbor. It should be in shortly.

The 2 1/2" Carbide fluted shell end mill came in; I finished my 'prototype' P08 dished toggle...

Very slow milling; 10º angle from horizontal; plunge milled. I retained the ~.156" contact patch for the frame ramp. The arc of the scallop is not as great as an M1900 due to the M1900 being .150" wider in the knob area.

Came out OK; there were a few tool marks but sanding with 220 wet-or-dry wrapped around a suitable mandrel took them out pretty quick.

Visually not as impressive as the wider M1900 toggle, but it's different...

[sheepherder]

Back to working on the long-barrel Luger again.

Getting the parts ready to be shipped off to be blued. Toggle and rear sight are now done; nothing left for me to work on except forearm.

(86) Cutting the Patridge-style notch in the Mauser rear sight leaf.
(87) Milling off some of the rifle graduations
(88) Making a fixture to hole the forearm so I can file/sand it
(89) Milling a slot in the forearm for the brass inlay to fasten the forearm



I don't have any woodworking tools to speak of, and I don't have a bench or 'pony' to clamp work to, so I have to make up some kind of fixture to hold the forearm while I file/sand it. I made one out of aluminum bar, need to fasten the ends somehow.

(90) Milling a piece of brass for the forearm inlay
(91) Inlay fitted to the forearm slot
(92) Inlay milled down and drilled & counterbored for the attaching screws
(93) Milling the 'coves' in the forearm, using a 1/2" ball end mill



(94) Milling the other 'cove'
(95) Milling right side flat, in a elliptical shape
(96) How that flat looks
(97) Test fit on frame

[sheepherder]

Trying to do as much machine work on the forearm as possible.

(98) "Blending" the brass inlay with the forearm bottom.
(99) Using a 1/2"R corner-rounding end mill to round the bottom of the forearm. This is my test piece, and it actually turned out quite well (surprisingly!).
(100) I'm doing a lateral move now. I'm OK with the forearm I have so far, but there are always different ways to achieve the same end, and I want to explore a couple of these. I'm trying to use my machine tools as much as possible. So, in this pic, I'm corner-rounding the Pine forearm I used as a test piece and tapering the corner at the same time.
(101) Now I'm using a straight 3/4" end mill to side-cut the forearm to taper it from rear to front by 1/4" total [1/8" each side].



(102) I noticed I have some kind of burr or rasp or whatever that has a taper to it, so I'm experimenting to see how it would work on the top of the forearm, to help give it the 'rounded' cross-section that the Luger forearms seem to have.
(103) Here's a shot of the semi-completed Pine forearm. Besides final sanding, the only real area that needs more work is the 'Schnabel' tip. The corner-rounding end mill couldn't go full length, so I have to figure out some way to blend in the curve. I may use my rotary indexing head...
(104) Woohoo! Got all my metal pieces back from the refinishing. All blued except the 6 pieces at the bottom; they have been strawed. Excellent work!
(105) Assembling the mainspring in the frame. Frame clamped to mill worktable so it won't move, and cotter pin puller used to compress spring. Works great!

[sheepherder]

I'm still contemplating on how to form my forearm, so in the meantime I decided to clean up my workbench of projects that have languished over the last couple of years...

The first pic is an 80% M1911 with a Bo-Mar Tuner Rib attached. The slide is a Numrich item while the 'parts kit' came from Sarco. There's a couple aftermarket and OEM Colt parts thrown in for good measure. Haven't shot it yet; no 45 target ammunition available.

Second pic is three Luger-style barrels. The top is an original Luger M1900 7.65mm barrel which was purchased from a forum member and was found to be 'squished' .020" in the middle, probably from being incorrectly [wrong or no tools] removed. I was able to obtain a ground drill blank in the correct size and slowly form it back to round shape with a planishing hammer. That left some marks, along with the 100+ year old nicks & scratches, so I used Ithacaartist's method of filing it on a lathe, insread of my usual single-point cutting. It worked out surprisingly well.

Bottom barrel of the second pic is a 1916 Bohler barrel included for comparison purposes. It's my 'control' barrel.

The middle barrel is a 3" 9mm Green River blank which I tried to profile to 'pocket Luger' shape. I couldn't find anyone who would measure their 'pocket Luger' barrel (which I am told was made from a shortened & silver-soldered Navy barrel) so I tried to take the measurements off a picture or two from PIA, Simpsons, and this forum of the original 'pocket Lugers' (not to be confused with Georg Lugers 'baby Luger"). I'm happy with the machine operations but somewhat disappointed with the actual profile. It looks awfully stubby. I understand that most later 'pocket Lugers' are made from shortened P08 barrels, but was the Navy barrel really so thick???

Posts here state that the Luger 'Fat Barrel' and 'Cartridge Counter' Lugers had the same dimensioned barrels used to make the shortened 'pocket Lugers', so that is what I used for my dimensions. Vernier calipers on a photograph; not the easiest (or best) way to get dimensions.

Eventually, I'll finish up cutting the sight dovetail and the muzzle, and install it on a barrel extension for looks. It's already indexed and chambered.

[sheepherder]

<sigh>...I've been sidetracked again...

I wanted a M1900-style rear toggle for my long-barrel Luger, that is one with scalloped knobs. I couldn't find one cheaply enough, so I decided to make one. The M1900 toggle is .150" wider through the knob area, so I couldn't mill a 50mm crescent that the M1900 uses, I had to mill a scallop like Orimar did on their year 2000 commemorative Lugers. It worked out quite well. [Second pic below].

Then, having an artillery rear toggle leftover from eBay, I decided to try an adjustable rear sight mounted on the Luger toggle. My supply of adjustable rear sights are mostly large rifle sights, but I had a couple of Elliason [Colt Gold Cup] sights and decided to try making a base for one of those. It worked out OK, but hangs off the rear quite a bit [first pic below]. I'm not happy with it, although it should function satisfactorily. The only hangup I have is that I don't have the correct #6 tap for the elevation screw. It's even finer than NEF. So I'll have to wait until my next tooling order to get that setup finished.

In the meantime, I have an old Millett adjustable rear sight intended for an M1911 or Hi-Power that is much shorter. I'll be making a base for that in the coming weeks.

[sheepherder]

Got all my long-barrel pieces assembled, and doing a trial fit of the forearm. It still needs work (or maybe a whole new forearm) but it seems to be coming along...



I'm not a woodworker, so it's definitely rough. However, the pic shows my Gonzo cartridge-counter grips and modified magazine, the scalloped toggle knobs, the Tomek magazine bottom, the strawed parts, and the new blueing. It started to snow while I took these pics, so I didn't have time to wipe off oily fingerprints...

Modified Remington M700 30-06 barrel chambered in 7.65 Parabellum, shortened FN/Mauser carbine rear sight, custom front sight.

[sheepherder]

After doing some experimenting with my corner rounding end mill on that soft pine, I felt confident enough to do some more corner rounding on my forearm...

(106) Extending the flat on the bottom further forward.
(107) Extending the rounded corners of the bottom forward to the Schnabel tip I created in 106.
(108) Lightly sanded and rubbed, then attached to the frame lug for inspection. My brass inlay needs to be milled down 10 or 20 thousandths, and I made a couple mistakes doing these additional tapers. A chip here, a cutter line there. It's not perfect, but I'm not either, so this will do for now. Still needs more work of course, blending the taper curves together, maybe rounding the top line.

A member suggested that I have the forearm checkered. That would hide/detract from my mistakes, but is this 'Gonzo' Luger long-barrel really deserving of checkering??? I'll have to mull that over for a while and maybe consult a higher power...

The checkering on the grips is awful coarse, and the grips themselves are quite thick...And my 'cartridge counter' mod to them isn't all that great...

Also, the brass inlay would interfere with a traditional checkering pattern...And the side checkering would need to be different...

My brain hurts...



I just noticed that Herbert Werle's carbine does not use the forearm 'wedge' to hold his forearm on (pic in post #1 above). It seems to be held on by the sling stud. That's cool; I managed to copy his idea without knowing it...

Continuing on with a couple of small refinements...

(109) Thinning the brass inlay. I put a .004" shim between the inlay and the wood so I wouldn't cut into the forearm.
(110) Milling down the brass screws, so they won't hit the barrel.
(111) I still need to finish the tip of the forearm. I don't have good pictures of how it should be shaped, so I'm going by guesswork. The tip seems to be rounded from the side and from the top. I made up a quick and dirty fixture to hold the forearm level (along the barrel axis) so it could be sanded to a round contour in the side view. I'm using my pine 'practice' forearm to see how it would look. It worked excellently. In hindsight, I should have sanded the front tip round after milling the sides and bottom flat but before using my corner rounding end mill on the bottom curved surface. That would have allowed me to draw my round contour directly on the flat of the wood and then I could have easily sanded it and then gone on to the corner rounding of the bottom. As it is, my surface is curved and I'm not skilled enough to sand it freehand without a guide of some sort. If I totally ruin this Walnut forearm, I'll make a new one the right way. But I'm too far advanced to trash this one and start over without a compelling reason.
(112) I've been looking at pics of Luger forearms on the net and mine looks 'thick' by comparison. Looking closely, I notice that the forearm upper deck height is right at the centerline of the barrel, while mine is approximately 3/32" above that centerline. Mulling over how best to cut that much/little off the upper deck, I decided to try side milling it, both sides at once, and climb milling to minimize chips. Here is one of my practice pieces being climb/side milled to see how well this works. Note: It works great!



Next up is to 'thin' my good Walnut forearm. Same technique as in the previous pic. Climb/side mill the upper deck - comparison of pictures from a recent auction show I need to mill .125" off my deck to get the correct height.

(113) Side/climb milling my good forearm, upper deck.
(114) Re-cutting the deck taper of the forearm.
(115) Tip profile curve marked on tape; sanding curve with forearm clamped in Gonzo sanding fixture.
(116) How the profile now looks, with top deck lowered and front tip profile sanded curved. I still need to sand the bottom/top of the tip to a curve also. Pictures show this curve to be rounded in both axes; I'm not sure how to do that. I'll have to think it over...Maybe with a corner rounding end mill or router bit in my rotary indexing head???

[sheepherder]

I didn't like the 'curl' at the tip of my forearm, so I made another one. That makes a total of five forearms I've made, and except for a chip, this last one came out just the way I wanted. So, more pictures.

Quick & dirty rundown...

(1) Donor wood stock, a Steyr straight-pull.
(2) Milling the inletting for the forearm lug.
(3) Milling the slot for the brass inlay.



(4) Milling trigger guard cut.
(5) Milling scallops with 1/2" ball end mill.
(6) Milling bottom flat, up to curl.
(7) Two views of squared-off forearm.



(8) Rounding bottom of side with corner rounding end mill.
(9) Same on other side.
(10) Chamfering top sides with weird burr.
(11) Two views of rounded-off forearm.



(12) Modified fixtures used to hold forearm for milling.
(13) Milling brass inlay to size.
(14) Rounding ends of inlay.
(15) Drilling & counterboring inlay for attaching screws.



(16) Finished forearm and brass inlay.



This completes the long-barreled part of this project. All metal parts are either blued or strawed (or brass) and forearm is finished except for final sanding and treating with BLO.

On to the next part!

[sheepherder]

When I dug out my sales receipt from 1992, it was for a 1917 Luger. So, it could have been for a Luger carbine. I have both a 13" and a 16" barreled receiver for this Luger, so here's the period buttstock for it.

Finding a buttstock was very frustrating. I wanted a '1902 style' profile but all I could find were '1920 style' repros or duplicates. So, I ended up getting a used semi-finished 1920 style and sectioning & gluing it to look like a 1902 style.

(1) Buttstock as received from eBay seller.
(2) Milling a .060" thick x 10mm Walnut 'popsicle stick' for stock iron groove, both top & bottom.
(3) Popsicle sticks glued in & being milled to fit iron.
(4) Milling butt flat, and at an angle like 1902.



(5), (6), and (7) Milling lever reliefs in gooseneck with ball end mill.
(8) Stock iron fitted.



(9) Sawing eBay buttstock in half. EEK!!! What is this madman doing???
(10) Sawed pieces. Actually, two saw cuts, to create a ~5/16" taper/drop to the stock
(11) Milling sawn end of stock flat.
(12) Milling 3/8" slot for reinforcing wedge.



(13) Milling sawn end of gooseneck flat.
(14) Clamping stock pieces together to mark gooseneck for slot.
(15) Milling 3/8" slot in gooseneck.
(16) Pieces slotted and stacked to admire.



The slots have been milled at different angles, so the filler piece cab be wedge-shaped. Maked fitting easier.

(17) Milling a piece of Walnut down to .375".
(18) Clockwise - Spare piece of 3/8" Walnut; cardboard form; 3/8" wedge inserted between two sawn pieces.
(19) Wedge & two pieces glued together with Resorcinol glue and left clamped under mill quill.
(20) Glued buttstock 24 hours later, ready for shaping.

[sheepherder]

Glue has cured, excess wood of wedge has been band-sawed off, I'm now rough sanding the wedge and slots.

(21) Sanding the top of the wedge/slot. Bottom was next.
(22) Filling in some chips & low spots with the Resorcinol glue. Olle told me that Aircraft Spruce Co. had industrial-strength Resorcinol glue ("Cascophen") for use on aircraft and marine applications. The Resorcinol glue you get in hardware stores is watered-down and regulated to the point that it's no longer effective. This is the good stuff. Can be sanded, sawed, drilled, etc. When cured.
(23), (24) Rough sanding finished.



A buttplate is next. I could not find anything suitable. So I made one out of black Delrin. I love Delrin. It's lathe-turnable, millable, drillable, you can even tap/thread it. Nice hard Acetal plastic.

(25) Milling a piece of Delrin flat.
(26) Drilling attaching holes.
(27) Drilling the butt to match the buttplate holes.
(28) Rough belt-sanding the Delrin buttplate to shape.



(29) Buttplate fitted to stock; final marking of edges. Screws used are from an 1891 Argentine Mauser rifle. And, at this point, disaster struck. One of the old screws snapped the head off. Crystalline fracture. I couldn't grab onto the piece in the stock, I had to drill the piece out. This left a ragged hole, so I enlarged it and glued in a Walnut plug.
(30) 1/2" hole drilled for plug. Finished plug is in lathe in background.
(31) Resorcinol glue used to secure plug.
(32) Milling plug flat.



Following that setback, it was time to finish off the buttplate.

(33) Drilling the plug for the Mauser screw. I have several.
(34) Milling/thinning the buttplate to 5/16" thick.
(35) Rounding the edge with a 1/8" radius corner rounding router bit.
(36) Final sanding & fitting of buttplate to stock.



Time to finish sand and prep the forearm and buttstock for BLO. I followed the instructions given at Ironwood Designs for finishing their gunstocks (http://ironwooddesigns.com/IWDfinish.html). Five coats of Boiled Linseed Oil, let dry 24 hours, then buff.

(37) After first heavy coat of BLO. Waiting 15 mins then wipe excess off, then 4 thin coats, let dry 24 hrs.
(38) Finished stock/forearm after buffing.
(39) The finished and assembled Gonzo Luger long barreled carbine. It's no beauty, but it sure is...different...

[sheepherder]

Here's a comparison pic of original '1920 style' duplicated stock as I got it (and fitted the stock iron) and compared to the finished stock before final sanding. It's not an exact match for a '1902 style' buttstock, but it'll do for now.



Here's a pic taken in the early hours of an April morning, outdoors, of the assembled finished 'carbine' with attached stock. All Gonzo - scalloped toggle knobs, 'cartridge counter' grips & modified Tomek magazines, Mauser rifle rear sight, and generally rough barn-job fabricating.

7.65 Parabellum caliber. I have no idea if it will even shoot. And I don't care.