Luger Steel Lanyard 'Staple'

sheepherder · 04-06-2017, 04:10 PM

Sorry for the confusion...I'll rephrase...

Does anyone know how the Luger steel 'staple' [lanyard loop] on the back of the gripframe is retained???

Press fit? Interference fit? Peened in place???

Have you ever removed one? How tight was it? Did it pop right off or require major force to remove?

Has one ever been observed loose??? Have you had one fall off???

No special reason why I'm asking. Just a rainy Spring day, looking at Luger blueprints, measuring grips, checking eBay for a front sight...Idle curiosity mostly...

To further clarify...It be this part back here...

cirelaw · 04-06-2017, 04:28 PM

Great question, Is it welded? I'll take on apart and see what I can! It has to be strong!! Only you my friend! I just took it apart and no sign on the inside!

Edward Tinker · 04-06-2017, 04:32 PM

A very excellent question, since I came across this in my box - forgot I had it and want to rescue the staple.

heat it up?

I broke one once trying to force it out.

I have had one loose, I have had one partly out - but was told they were pressed in.

thoughts?

sheepherder · 04-06-2017, 04:53 PM

I'm looking at the inside of my 1937 Mauser and I can't even see the edges...It's like the inside was machined after the holes were drilled...Or they're not through-holes...

Edit: My 1900AE has the staple legs showing on the inside, so the holes are through-holes...And the AE shows grind marks on the staple 'legs' from after the machining of the inside...

Eugen · 04-06-2017, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I'm looking at the inside of my 1937 Mauser and I can't even see the edges...It's like the inside was machined after the holes were drilled...Or they're not through-holes...

The blueprint is not definitive...It shows the holes, but it's not clear if they go all the way through...

I'll be darned if I know, but based on your observation, I'll bet the lanyard loop is just staked in blind frame holes. I am sure someone that actually knows will chime in soon.

G.T. · 04-06-2017, 05:09 PM

Yes, they seem to be machined right along with the frame well in the back, but I learned from JVM to just use a small taper punch and tap the staple out of the frame, from the inside out?... its hard to see, but once one it moves a little, you'll see it ... GT....

sheepherder · 04-06-2017, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.T.

Yes, they seem to be machined right along with the frame well in the back, but I learned from JVM to just use a small taper punch and tap the staple out of the frame, from the inside out?... its hard to see, but once one it moves a little, you'll see it ... GT....

I see them in my 1900AE...But I don't want to remove it, just know how well it's fitted...If you can tap it out with a punch then it's not very tight...

cirelaw · 04-06-2017, 05:25 PM

Ed, whats the actual process of of attaching the frame and loop? There is no evidence of internal attachment that I could see i.e. solder or welding! Did every luger of every make have the same loop?

spacecoast · 04-06-2017, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Did every luger of every make have the same loop?

The 1908 Bulgarian contract drilled an extra hole and moved the loop to the bottom of the grip frame where it hung loosely. Seems like a more practical location to me.

wlyon · 04-06-2017, 05:48 PM

Yes. They are pressed in and very tightly. I have removed one and replaced one. Not a difficult task but must be done slowly and carefully. Bill

sheepherder · 04-06-2017, 06:12 PM

Ed & Bill -

I don't plan on removing mine, but just out of curiosity, why did you remove them???

wlyon · 04-06-2017, 09:55 PM

It was a shooter and I wanted to see how it went together. Curious mind or stupid?? Bill

Edward Tinker · 04-06-2017, 11:12 PM

it was a screwed up frame and I wanted to save that - just in case. Every now and then someone needs one. You know me, I buy parts anytime I can.

My pet peeves, these ebay idiots that take the front sight off of barrels, the idiots that take the rear staple off, the idiots that even take out the taken down spring. Jeez, what idiots...

ithacaartist · 04-06-2017, 11:42 PM

I remember a thread posted by a member who was making replacement loops--raw stock discussed, precision bending jig to account for spring-back, etc.--but I forget who!

DonVoigt · 04-07-2017, 01:15 AM

I'm pretty sure that the staple is peened in place and then machined over.
I had a frame that the staple was gone and the holes are wider on the inside, hence my conclusion.

I do not think a press fit would have made the engineers happy as it would eventually have worked loose. JMHO.

Today, I'd just use green or red loktite and be done with it.

sheepherder · 04-07-2017, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

I remember a thread posted by a member who was making replacement loops--raw stock discussed, precision bending jig to account for spring-back, etc.--but I forget who!

It was Olle - the lanyard loop was on a P38, IIRC. He made a bunch of them, for eBay I think...

That uses a stepped piece of wire, on both 'legs'. Olle made a nice bending jig to bend them after turning the ends down.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=29453

Looking at the Luger CD drawings, I couldn't find the loop itself. But the frame holes are straight, and 2.5mm dia if'n I'm reading it correctly...

Edward Tinker · 04-07-2017, 11:24 AM

Were they welded or is this a newer frame where they did not bore holes?

As I don't see anything on the inside..

spacecoast · 04-07-2017, 11:31 AM

Maybe Mauser didn't make/attach them the same way as DWM?

John Sabato · 04-07-2017, 12:08 PM

I checked the blueprints, (as I am sure those of you who have purchased the blueprint CD already have), and found that the two ends that fit into the frame are round and 2.5mm in size... the holes are also 2.5mm so that would indicate a press fit to me.

I thought I had remembered that there was a retaining drift pin on the inside of the frame, but not according to the blueprints.

While I don't have a Luger with me at work

, also according the prints, you should be able to see the ends of the lanyard loop staple on the inside of the frame as the holes ARE drilled through. They may be staked in place.

IF the ends of the loop are machined to 2.5mm and the holes drilled to that size as well, the fit would be very tight, and if the loop were refrigerated, and the frame warmed up, insertion would be not so difficult... once the two parts were the same temperature, it would take substantial effort to remove the staple.

I would submit that if you find a loose lanyard staple as Ed Tinker has, someone has already attempted removal and it didn't just loosen from use.

Just my $0.02 worth of engineering/gunsmithing expertise...

cirelaw · 04-07-2017, 12:09 PM

John, Maybe a duel purpose! Firmly holding the frame during the manufacturing process, ie dipping?

04-06-2017, 04:10 PM	#1
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	Luger Steel Lanyard 'Staple' Sorry for the confusion...I'll rephrase... Does anyone know how the Luger steel 'staple' [lanyard loop] on the back of the gripframe is retained??? Press fit? Interference fit? Peened in place??? Have you ever removed one? How tight was it? Did it pop right off or require major force to remove? Has one ever been observed loose??? Have you had one fall off??? No special reason why I'm asking. Just a rainy Spring day, looking at Luger blueprints, measuring grips, checking eBay for a front sight...Idle curiosity mostly... To further clarify...It be this part back here... Attached Images __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter... Last edited by sheepherder; 04-09-2017 at 12:51 PM.

04-06-2017, 04:28 PM	#2
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Great question, Is it welded? I'll take on apart and see what I can! It has to be strong!! Only you my friend! I just took it apart and no sign on the inside! Attached Thumbnails

04-06-2017, 04:32 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	A very excellent question, since I came across this in my box - forgot I had it and want to rescue the staple. heat it up? I broke one once trying to force it out. I have had one loose, I have had one partly out - but was told they were pressed in. thoughts? Attached Thumbnails

04-06-2017, 04:53 PM	#4
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	I'm looking at the inside of my 1937 Mauser and I can't even see the edges...It's like the inside was machined after the holes were drilled...Or they're not through-holes... Edit: My 1900AE has the staple legs showing on the inside, so the holes *are* through-holes...And the AE shows grind marks on the staple 'legs' from after the machining of the inside... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

04-06-2017, 05:09 PM	#6
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,507 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,653 Times in 1,004 Posts	drive them out from the inside! Yes, they seem to be machined right along with the frame well in the back, but I learned from JVM to just use a small taper punch and tap the staple out of the frame, from the inside out?... its hard to see, but once one it moves a little, you'll see it ... GT....

04-06-2017, 05:25 PM	#8
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Ed, whats the actual process of of attaching the frame and loop? There is no evidence of internal attachment that I could see i.e. solder or welding! Did every luger of every make have the same loop?

04-06-2017, 05:48 PM	#10
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,561 Times in 956 Posts	Yes. They are pressed in and very tightly. I have removed one and replaced one. Not a difficult task but must be done slowly and carefully. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

04-06-2017, 06:12 PM	#11
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	Ed & Bill - I don't plan on removing mine, but just out of curiosity, why did you remove them??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

04-06-2017, 09:55 PM	#12
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,561 Times in 956 Posts	It was a shooter and I wanted to see how it went together. Curious mind or stupid?? Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

04-06-2017, 11:12 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	it was a screwed up frame and I wanted to save that - just in case. Every now and then someone needs one. You know me, I buy parts anytime I can. My pet peeves, these ebay idiots that take the front sight off of barrels, the idiots that take the rear staple off, the idiots that even take out the taken down spring. Jeez, what idiots...

04-06-2017, 11:42 PM	#14
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	I remember a thread posted by a member who was making replacement loops--raw stock discussed, precision bending jig to account for spring-back, etc.--but I forget who! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

04-07-2017, 01:15 AM	#15
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	I'm pretty sure that the staple is peened in place and then machined over. I had a frame that the staple was gone and the holes are wider on the inside, hence my conclusion. I do not think a press fit would have made the engineers happy as it would eventually have worked loose. JMHO. Today, I'd just use green or red loktite and be done with it. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

04-07-2017, 11:24 AM	#17
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Were they welded or is this a newer frame where they did not bore holes? As I don't see anything on the inside.. Attached Thumbnails

04-07-2017, 11:31 AM	#18
spacecoast User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: FL and PA Posts: 332 Thanks: 276 Thanked 243 Times in 109 Posts	Maybe Mauser didn't make/attach them the same way as DWM? __________________ My avatars are the Bulgarian word for "Fire", as seen on my 1900, 1906 and 1908 Bulgarian Contract DWM Lugers. Looking for a DWM Commercial side plate #95

04-07-2017, 12:08 PM	#19
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	I checked the blueprints, (as I am sure those of you who have purchased the blueprint CD already have), and found that the two ends that fit into the frame are round and 2.5mm in size... the holes are also 2.5mm so that would indicate a press fit to me. I thought I had remembered that there was a retaining drift pin on the inside of the frame, but not according to the blueprints. While I don't have a Luger with me at work , also according the prints, you should be able to see the ends of the lanyard loop staple on the inside of the frame as the holes ARE drilled through. They may be staked in place. IF the ends of the loop are machined to 2.5mm and the holes drilled to that size as well, the fit would be very tight, and if the loop were refrigerated, and the frame warmed up, insertion would be not so difficult... once the two parts were the same temperature, it would take substantial effort to remove the staple. I would submit that if you find a loose lanyard staple as Ed Tinker has, someone has already attempted removal and it didn't just loosen from use. Just my $0.02 worth of engineering/gunsmithing expertise... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-07-2017, 12:09 PM	#20
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	John, Maybe a duel purpose! Firmly holding the frame during the manufacturing process, ie dipping?