Firing Pin Gauge

sdmark777 · 07-25-2019, 02:11 AM

Just found this for sale Online for $198.00 What do you guys Think? Legit? Seen others of this style? Price, high or low? What would the 34E20815 represent?

DonVoigt · 07-25-2019, 10:51 AM

Style is "normal".
Probably ok.
The number is probably a stock number.

These tools are much scarcer than the "take down" tool, and some of those go for crazy $$!

I made some to use, not collect, as I though prices too high for my purpose.
Made mine prettier too.

Here is a picture with an original Kreighoff gage.

Proofed · 07-25-2019, 12:26 PM

How are these tools used ?

Jim Solomon · 07-25-2019, 12:34 PM

I have one of Don’s firing pin tools.......it works well.
Jim

sdmark777 · 07-25-2019, 01:32 PM

I find it interesting that in Don's HK gauge, there is a period for the "1.1". The Germans use commas, not periods in their measurements. The gauge I listed, has the "1,1" which is what one would expect to see. I am not saying Don's HK gauge is not original, just interesting they went with a period. Then again, the period might be a speck and not a period at all.

DonVoigt · 07-26-2019, 12:28 AM

Not my gage, I borrowed it as a pattern.
But, obviously, HK did use a "period" in this case; I've seen a couple other HK tools so marked.

But then - of course- they could all be fakes; but many of the inspection tools shown in volume II of Goertz and Sturgess are marked using periods and not commas- others use commas you say.

sdmark777 · 07-26-2019, 02:58 AM

Don thanks for your update and relating the experience of seeing a period used on other tools as well. I am relatively inexperienced with these tools and just found it an interesting point that the HK tool had a period. I remember reading about your custom firing pin gauges in other posts. If anyone is interested in the one I found, just go to the Canadian Militaria site, germanmilitaria.com and look under new items, or try this: www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H036881.html

Saxon · 07-26-2019, 02:14 PM

How were these tools used?

DonVoigt · 07-26-2019, 06:19 PM

With the toggle train removed from the pistol, and the striker(firing pin) fully forward and projecting from the bolt face; place the legs of the 1.35mm side on each side of the protruding pin and move it across the pin, the pin should pass without touching-if it does the protrusion is ok; if it touches the pin, then the pin is protruding too much, and should be shortened till it will pass.

Now turn the tool around and use the 1.1mm side, it should not pass over the exposed tip of the striker, if it does the striker is too short.

The striker should have a smooth, rounded tip; in addition to being the correct length.

You can do the test quicker than I can type "how".

Proofed · 07-27-2019, 08:44 AM

Thanks Don for all your time and effort.

meadowlark · 07-28-2019, 12:18 PM

Don,
I noticed you didn't replicate the original completely, that is; there is a half hole on the original as shown in the photo but not on the ones you made. Was this omission because it has nothing to do with the use of this tool but used for something else?

DonVoigt · 07-28-2019, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meadowlark

Don,
I noticed you didn't replicate the original completely, that is; there is a half hole on the original as shown in the photo but not on the ones you made. Was this omission because it has nothing to do with the use of this tool but used for something else?

The shape is also different, I made these to use- and a little different so they would not be passed off as genuine. I don't know what the notch is for.

Rick W. · 07-28-2019, 03:40 PM

Perhaps round comes to mind.

Also relatively hard to do round recess comparatively speaking; tooling comes to mind there.

The little feature is probably as important as the other simple notches.

DonVoigt · 07-28-2019, 04:55 PM

"Perhaps round comes to mind" - this statement makes no sense.

It is not a problem to make a round notch, very simple with a mill.

If the notch is important, what is it for?

It has nothing to do with firing pin protrusion.

Doubs · 07-28-2019, 06:07 PM

Could the round notch be to check the contour of the firing pin tip?

Just a thought.

Rick W. · 07-28-2019, 07:15 PM

I am not really in the know for all of this, but seems to make logical sense, just a bit of simple comprehensional skills. Doubs picked right up on the thought presented; but of course, he has been around a while and is quite knowledgeable.

We read a lot here about firing pin shape. Round is round sorta speak; kinda like right is right........anything less could be trouble sometime.

I learned about making a perfectly round cut at the end of a rectangular cut, sights for African rifle with blades. Getting the round to be perfect for the wedge, ie no line show, was a trip for me. Did not happen the first time.

I would suspect that the round in the tool could be done with a wheel or small ball mill, either one custom ground probably; but for a supplied machine shop, no big deal.........precision grinder.

I remember these German tools, so marked, and with the same shape features come out of digs in later times, then sold on the markets abroad. A friend in Berlin was generous enough to share a few with me...............never used them, depth mic is my friend; but for the collector, a tool like this seems appropriate...........of course collectors like originality. That asking price seems a bit out of line, but I have not been in the Luger deal for a good while.

meadowlark · 07-28-2019, 10:19 PM

sdmark777- I don't know anything about this gauge but I wouldn't buy it based on the condition of the measuring slots. It looks like they were nibbled out with a hacksaw or the like. I can't believe the depth is very accurate. Not saying it is not vintage.

DonVoigt · 07-28-2019, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubs

Could the round notch be to check the contour of the firing pin tip?

Just a thought.

The rounded notch is Way bigger than a firing pin tip.

Doubs · 07-29-2019, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

The rounded notch is Way bigger than a firing pin tip.

Never having held one, the picture is all I have to go by.

As I said, it was just a thought but I'm certain of one thing; the rounded notch has a purpose. We just don't know what that is.

DonVoigt · 07-29-2019, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubs

Never having held one, the picture is all I have to go by.

As I said, it was just a thought but I'm certain of one thing; the rounded notch has a purpose. We just don't know what that is.

The notch may just be for holding in position in a jig or other fixture.
Also notice that the notch is significantly different in size in each of the two tools shown.
Either one is not of a size that "fits" any part of a luger.

07-25-2019, 02:11 AM	#1
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 288 Thanks: 695 Thanked 672 Times in 174 Posts	Firing Pin Gauge Just found this for sale Online for $198.00 What do you guys Think? Legit? Seen others of this style? Price, high or low? What would the 34E20815 represent? Attached Thumbnails Last edited by sdmark777; 07-25-2019 at 02:13 AM. Reason: Revised wording

07-25-2019, 10:51 AM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Style is "normal". Probably ok. The number is probably a stock number. These tools are much scarcer than the "take down" tool, and some of those go for crazy $$! I made some to use, not collect, as I though prices too high for my purpose. Made mine prettier too. Here is a picture with an original Kreighoff gage. Attached Thumbnails __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

07-25-2019, 12:34 PM	#4
Jim Solomon Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Georgia Posts: 199 Thanks: 700 Thanked 176 Times in 69 Posts	I have one of Don’s firing pin tools.......it works well. Jim __________________ Jim Solomon [email protected]

07-25-2019, 01:32 PM	#5
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 288 Thanks: 695 Thanked 672 Times in 174 Posts	I find it interesting that in Don's HK gauge, there is a period for the "1.1". The Germans use commas, not periods in their measurements. The gauge I listed, has the "1,1" which is what one would expect to see. I am not saying Don's HK gauge is not original, just interesting they went with a period. Then again, the period might be a speck and not a period at all. Last edited by sdmark777; 07-25-2019 at 01:34 PM. Reason: clarification

07-26-2019, 12:28 AM	#6
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Not my gage, I borrowed it as a pattern. But, obviously, HK did use a "period" in this case; I've seen a couple other HK tools so marked. But then - of course- they could all be fakes; but many of the inspection tools shown in volume II of Goertz and Sturgess are marked using periods and not commas- others use commas you say. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

07-25-2019, 12:26 PM	#3
Proofed User Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Pa. Posts: 157 Thanks: 535 Thanked 338 Times in 90 Posts	How are these tools used ?

07-26-2019, 02:58 AM	#7
sdmark777 User Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 288 Thanks: 695 Thanked 672 Times in 174 Posts	Don thanks for your update and relating the experience of seeing a period used on other tools as well. I am relatively inexperienced with these tools and just found it an interesting point that the HK tool had a period. I remember reading about your custom firing pin gauges in other posts. If anyone is interested in the one I found, just go to the Canadian Militaria site, germanmilitaria.com and look under new items, or try this: www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H036881.html

07-26-2019, 02:14 PM	#8
Saxon Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13 Thanks: 21 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	How were these tools used?

07-26-2019, 06:19 PM	#9
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	With the toggle train removed from the pistol, and the striker(firing pin) fully forward and projecting from the bolt face; place the legs of the 1.35mm side on each side of the protruding pin and move it across the pin, the pin should pass without touching-if it does the protrusion is ok; if it touches the pin, then the pin is protruding too much, and should be shortened till it will pass. Now turn the tool around and use the 1.1mm side, it should not pass over the exposed tip of the striker, if it does the striker is too short. The striker should have a smooth, rounded tip; in addition to being the correct length. You can do the test quicker than I can type "how". __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

07-27-2019, 08:44 AM	#10
Proofed User Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Pa. Posts: 157 Thanks: 535 Thanked 338 Times in 90 Posts	F/P tool info Thanks Don for all your time and effort.

07-28-2019, 12:18 PM	#11
meadowlark User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Florida Posts: 53 Thanks: 33 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Don, I noticed you didn't replicate the original completely, that is; there is a half hole on the original as shown in the photo but not on the ones you made. Was this omission because it has nothing to do with the use of this tool but used for something else?

07-28-2019, 03:40 PM	#13
Rick W. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 339 Thanks: 81 Thanked 359 Times in 198 Posts	Perhaps round comes to mind. Also relatively hard to do round recess comparatively speaking; tooling comes to mind there. The little feature is probably as important as the other simple notches.

07-28-2019, 04:55 PM	#14
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	"Perhaps round comes to mind" - this statement makes no sense. It is not a problem to make a round notch, very simple with a mill. If the notch is important, what is it for? It has nothing to do with firing pin protrusion. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

07-28-2019, 06:07 PM	#15
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,700 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,692 Times in 555 Posts	Could the round notch be to check the contour of the firing pin tip? Just a thought.

07-28-2019, 07:15 PM	#16
Rick W. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 339 Thanks: 81 Thanked 359 Times in 198 Posts	I am not really in the know for all of this, but seems to make logical sense, just a bit of simple comprehensional skills. Doubs picked right up on the thought presented; but of course, he has been around a while and is quite knowledgeable. We read a lot here about firing pin shape. Round is round sorta speak; kinda like right is right........anything less could be trouble sometime. I learned about making a perfectly round cut at the end of a rectangular cut, sights for African rifle with blades. Getting the round to be perfect for the wedge, ie no line show, was a trip for me. Did not happen the first time. I would suspect that the round in the tool could be done with a wheel or small ball mill, either one custom ground probably; but for a supplied machine shop, no big deal.........precision grinder. I remember these German tools, so marked, and with the same shape features come out of digs in later times, then sold on the markets abroad. A friend in Berlin was generous enough to share a few with me...............never used them, depth mic is my friend; but for the collector, a tool like this seems appropriate...........of course collectors like originality. That asking price seems a bit out of line, but I have not been in the Luger deal for a good while.

07-28-2019, 10:19 PM	#17
meadowlark User Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Florida Posts: 53 Thanks: 33 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	sdmark777- I don't know anything about this gauge but I wouldn't buy it based on the condition of the measuring slots. It looks like they were nibbled out with a hacksaw or the like. I can't believe the depth is very accurate. Not saying it is not vintage.