Circle-S Police Luger Survey

[Dwight Gruber]

Steve,

Thanks much for passing this on--also to Ed, who emailed it to me.

This gun showed up in Auto Mag awhile back; with this listing I was able to get the rear frame number from the seller.

--Dwight

[ArtB]

I have 1912/1920 DWM, serial 69182, matching including alumnium bottom mag. Cut for mag safety which is no longer present. Right receiver proofs are standard for 1912. Left barrel in front of receiver has proof that is a bit double strike. I believe it is #48, page 85 Costanzo. Could possibly be #44. Left receiver in front of side plate, Circle S #110, page 190 Costanzo. Serial # is also on left front receiver and is an over stamp with faint couple previous numbers visable. Numbers are a bit out of line. It even appears that the number 1 was part of a previous number. Above the serial number on receiver is stamped a small "GERMANY". I acquired this in 1995 and it came with a 1939 dated holster, tool and extra mag. Inside mag pocket was piece of paper with name S/sgt Johnson written on it. Hope this helps.

[Dwight Gruber]

Art,

Thanks very much for the report. Your description prompts a couple of observations. 69182 is not a serial number one would expect for a 1912 military Luger. The barrel inspection marks sound interesting. Is there a number stamped on the back of the frame, above the lanyard staple?

Any chance you could post comprehensive pictures?

--Dwight

[Vlim]

Probably just stating the obvious but for what it's worth:

We know the date letters that were in use between 1925 and 1935, resulting amongst others in the K-date and the G-date on Mauser produced lugers of 1934 and 1935. The encoded date letter was the result of a German army directive and it was halted as of 1936. Interesting to know is that the proposed year letter for 1936 was the 'S'.

Another 'S' code, which probably was the basis for the Simson-link, was that Simson (or BSW, Berlin-Suhler Werke as the company was know at that date), was assigned to Simson/BSW in the same time frame and it was used for their K98 production.

Probably just recycling old info here, but it might be useful.

Another thing worth investigating is the following:
Can owners of Circle-S marked guns check if the chamber is still the stepped chamber design?
If not, the 'S' might be an indicator for 'Stahlhulse', indicating that the gun is modified for the use of steel cased 9x19 ammunition. Just a wild fantasy, this, but worth checking nonetheless.

[dirtmover]

It has been a while since I have been here, but I do
have a police luger. I haven't gone back a looked at
my old posts on this weapon. Mine has no " s ", per say.
It is stamped " S.P.L. " on the heal. No other " unit marks".
It came from Leipzig. ( 1917-1920 stamp )
This one may be in your book already.

I may have to put it up for sale because I have been out of work so long. It is going to be a sad day when part with it.

[Vlim]

After some thinking, some additional reading and watching the interesting dig find Erfurt with circle/S on the forum I may have an interesting clue:

During 1918 - 1922 the Spandau arsenal was busy refurbishing luger pistols. Documents in German archives survive that state that the modification (rebarreling) of LP08 pistols was done in the Spandau arsenal during that time frame. If they rebarreled LP08 pistols there is no reason why they couldn't also have made other repairs as well.

Circle - S / Spandau .... ?

[keny941]

erfurt 1914 /1920#4684a. right rec 3 crowns +looks like a bird left more crowns. circle in front rear frame #536 no barrel marks. sear safety yes. mag safety yes still working. toggle pin #84 unit marked #536 2 matching haenel schmeisser mags rear toggel #27 crossed out &replaced by # 84. grip screws have crowns. both grips #05

[Doug G.]

Had Ted restore this.

[padredan]

not sure if this is of any help to you, being it is not a police luger, but does have the circle S on left side in front of the serial number 3881 b,dwm toggel, 9mm, 1918 1950 double stamp, i do hope this may be of some help to you, thanks

[abzug]

Information for your study: DWM 1921/1920, 5042a, Ma.282, sear safety present, mag safety disabled, grips unnumbered, barrel serial number and suffix with bore gauge, right receiver two WaA4, one ArA4, barrel ArA4, breech block WaA4. Rear frame 282, mag 282.

[SteveM]

Dwight, here is another for your database.

Toggle Mark (logo)-DWM

Chamber Date-1918

1920 property mark (yes/no)-yes

Serial number (complete, with suffix)-9866h

Right Receiver Marks
(even if they are just Imperial inpector stamps and proofs, this will help determine if the toggle train is original or if it might have been replaced in rework--an Erfurt gun with a DWM toggle, for instance.)-T S S and test proof

Left receiver marks, if different from c-S and serial number

Circle-S position (in front of serial#, or in back)-front

Rear frame number (number, if present) (crossed out?)-3090

Barrel Marks--all of them-8,83 and 9866h

PT/PTV stamp on barrel (yes/no)-no

Sear Safety (yes/no)-yes

Magazine Safety (yes/no) (clipped, removed, or active)-yes, clipped

Rear Toggle Pin numbererd (yes/no)-yes and fluted

Grip Markings-none

Unit Marks (yes/no) (if yes, the mark itself)-none

Any other stamps present on gun (e.g. HZa, etc.) and where-no

Magazine (if matching, base material and markings)-Haenel, aluminum base, numbered to gun without designation of 1 or 2 nor suffix letter

[SteveM]

Dwight,

Another Circle S if you are still collecting data. This one is Mannheim Schupo marked.

https://www.joesalter.com/category/p...agazine-Safety

[phatrick88]

Originally Posted by ArtB

I have 1912/1920 DWM, serial 69182, matching including alumnium bottom mag. Cut for mag safety which is no longer present. Right receiver proofs are standard for 1912. Left barrel in front of receiver has proof that is a bit double strike. I believe it is #48, page 85 Costanzo. Could possibly be #44. Left receiver in front of side plate, Circle S #110, page 190 Costanzo. Serial # is also on left front receiver and is an over stamp with faint couple previous numbers visable. Numbers are a bit out of line. It even appears that the number 1 was part of a previous number. Above the serial number on receiver is stamped a small "GERMANY". I acquired this in 1995 and it came with a 1939 dated holster, tool and extra mag. Inside mag pocket was piece of paper with name S/sgt Johnson written on it. Hope this helps.

This pistol has resurfaced and researching it brought me to this thread. Fifteen years later.