looking for info - Page 2

brain · 08-05-2008, 06:46 PM

back of the frame.

brain · 08-05-2008, 06:53 PM

don't know what the sear bar is.

brain · 08-07-2008, 07:40 PM

here are the capture paper...s

alvin · 08-07-2008, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brain
don't know what the sear bar is.

sear

alanint · 08-08-2008, 07:51 AM

The name engraved on the backstrap has no"e" in it. It would not likely be any of the individuals mentioned below.

Brian,
Just a bit of info on the name "M. Huebsch"...the 1914 Rangliste shows only a Reservist Lt Schmitz-Huebsch (44 Fld Arty Regt) in the Imperial Army of 1914. The German Graves Registration has twelve men named M.Huebsch none of whom were officers. The Offizier Ehrenliste 1914-1918 does list one officer named Huebsch. He was an Oblt. (First Lieutenant) in Infantry Regiment 87. He may be your man.

I have a 1914 commercial like yours that is serial numbered 73982 and marked on the front grip strap with the name"NEUFVILLE". I believe that both pistols were probably made in 1914-1915.

George Anderson · 08-08-2008, 08:59 AM

Brian, "ue" is the anglicized substitute for the German umlaut so you can consider the spelling the same.

Dwight Gruber · 08-08-2008, 10:28 PM

Brian,

Thanks for the extra pics.

The flat recoil spring well was instituted late in 1914, somewhere between sn 70632 and sn 72353. All of the reports of 1914 Commercials in this range up to sn 71182 are Commercial Armys, that is, commercial 5-digit serial numbered, but military proofed and accepted. The lazy c/N commercial proof indicates that the gun was proofed (by my estimation) before 1916 when the proof was stamped vertically and designates the 20DWM variation.

Commercial production was very limited during The Great War. The range of flat-well 1914 Commercial production in the Commercial database extends from sn 72353 (and possibly as early as sn 71504) to the final entry (intermixed with 20DWM and relieved-sear 1914 (1916) Commercial variations) of sn 76071. Examination of this range in the Commercial database suggests this gun was most likely made in 1915, possibly early 1916.

The maximum extension of the range of flat-well 1914 Commercials extends from approximately sn 71500 to sn 76071. Therefore, the maximum number of these pistols made is approximately 4,571 examples. There are only 100 serial number reports in this range; slightly more than half of them are 1914 Commercial, interspersed with 1914 Commercial Armys, 1914 Commercial Navys, 20DWMs, and possibly a couple of "1913 Commercials". It would be unwarrented to establish a production number based on the statistical average, but it seems reasonable to estimate from the pattern of reports that production of these guns may range from 2,000 to 3,000 units, pending reports of more data.

Although the frame has been ground back shorter than the front of the receiver, indicating the possible removal and replacement of a serial number, my own suspicion is that this is the original frame assembled with this gun. The matching serial numbers of the small frame parts tend to support this, as does the observation that Luger frames ground back farther than the receiver are much more common than is usually expected.

It is my own speculation that Commercial Lugers manufactured during the war were made up almost entirely of parts rejected during military contract production. This would be one possible way to account for the frame/receiver length mismatch.

--Dwight

Dwight Gruber · 08-08-2008, 10:28 PM

...oops, double post...

brain · 08-09-2008, 08:56 AM

wow, out standing, thank you.
so it would appear that it is a bit of a rare bird....i thought it was just a shooter when i purchased it.

as much as i dislike these questions, i'm going to do it.
what would a realistic value be on something like this?

alvin · 08-11-2008, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brain
wow, out standing, thank you.
so it would appear that it is a bit of a rare bird....i thought it was just a shooter when i purchased it.

as much as i dislike these questions, i'm going to do it.
what would a realistic value be on something like this?

Not an expert. But according to my observation on this forum, experts usually say $500-$750 on guns like this.

A.Mifsin · 08-12-2008, 02:31 AM

The range of flat-well 1914 Commercial production in the Commercial database extends from sn 72353 (and possibly as early as sn 71504) to the final entry (intermixed with 20DWM and relieved-sear 1914 (1916) Commercial variations) of sn 76071. Examination of this range in the Commercial database suggests this gun was most likely made in 1915, possibly early 1916.
flat-well
Dwight, can please explain what is a flat-well.
thanks
Alf

Dwight Gruber · 08-12-2008, 07:32 AM

Alf, see this link http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...frame+AND+spur

--Dwight

A.Mifsin · 08-12-2008, 08:47 AM

Thank You Dwight.

Alf

08-05-2008, 06:46 PM	#21
brain User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: lebanon,pa Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	back of the frame. Attached Thumbnails

08-07-2008, 07:40 PM	#23
brain User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: lebanon,pa Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	here are the capture paper...s Attached Thumbnails

08-12-2008, 02:31 AM	#31
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	The range of flat-well 1914 Commercial production in the Commercial database extends from sn 72353 (and possibly as early as sn 71504) to the final entry (intermixed with 20DWM and relieved-sear 1914 (1916) Commercial variations) of sn 76071. Examination of this range in the Commercial database suggests this gun was most likely made in 1915, possibly early 1916. flat-well Dwight, can please explain what is a flat-well. thanks Alf __________________ I prefer a Luger

08-12-2008, 08:47 AM	#33
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Thank You Dwight. Alf __________________ I prefer a Luger

08-05-2008, 06:53 PM	#22
brain User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: lebanon,pa Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	don't know what the sear bar is.

08-08-2008, 07:51 AM	#25
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	The name engraved on the backstrap has no"e" in it. It would not likely be any of the individuals mentioned below. Brian, Just a bit of info on the name "M. Huebsch"...the 1914 Rangliste shows only a Reservist Lt Schmitz-Huebsch (44 Fld Arty Regt) in the Imperial Army of 1914. The German Graves Registration has twelve men named M.Huebsch none of whom were officers. The Offizier Ehrenliste 1914-1918 does list one officer named Huebsch. He was an Oblt. (First Lieutenant) in Infantry Regiment 87. He may be your man. I have a 1914 commercial like yours that is serial numbered 73982 and marked on the front grip strap with the name"NEUFVILLE". I believe that both pistols were probably made in 1914-1915.

08-08-2008, 08:59 AM	#26
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Brian, "ue" is the anglicized substitute for the German umlaut so you can consider the spelling the same.

08-08-2008, 10:28 PM	#27
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Brian, Thanks for the extra pics. The flat recoil spring well was instituted late in 1914, somewhere between sn 70632 and sn 72353. All of the reports of 1914 Commercials in this range up to sn 71182 are Commercial Armys, that is, commercial 5-digit serial numbered, but military proofed and accepted. The lazy c/N commercial proof indicates that the gun was proofed (by my estimation) before 1916 when the proof was stamped vertically and designates the 20DWM variation. Commercial production was very limited during The Great War. The range of flat-well 1914 Commercial production in the Commercial database extends from sn 72353 (and possibly as early as sn 71504) to the final entry (intermixed with 20DWM and relieved-sear 1914 (1916) Commercial variations) of sn 76071. Examination of this range in the Commercial database suggests this gun was most likely made in 1915, possibly early 1916. The maximum extension of the range of flat-well 1914 Commercials extends from approximately sn 71500 to sn 76071. Therefore, the maximum number of these pistols made is approximately 4,571 examples. There are only 100 serial number reports in this range; slightly more than half of them are 1914 Commercial, interspersed with 1914 Commercial Armys, 1914 Commercial Navys, 20DWMs, and possibly a couple of "1913 Commercials". It would be unwarrented to establish a production number based on the statistical average, but it seems reasonable to estimate from the pattern of reports that production of these guns may range from 2,000 to 3,000 units, pending reports of more data. Although the frame has been ground back shorter than the front of the receiver, indicating the possible removal and replacement of a serial number, my own suspicion is that this is the original frame assembled with this gun. The matching serial numbers of the small frame parts tend to support this, as does the observation that Luger frames ground back farther than the receiver are much more common than is usually expected. It is my own speculation that Commercial Lugers manufactured during the war were made up almost entirely of parts rejected during military contract production. This would be one possible way to account for the frame/receiver length mismatch. --Dwight

08-09-2008, 08:56 AM	#29
brain User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: lebanon,pa Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	wow, out standing, thank you. so it would appear that it is a bit of a rare bird....i thought it was just a shooter when i purchased it. as much as i dislike these questions, i'm going to do it. what would a realistic value be on something like this?

08-12-2008, 07:32 AM	#32
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Alf, see this link http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...frame+AND+spur --Dwight