New Member & my newly bought 41 byf 'Black Widow' - Page 2

wlyon · 10-15-2012, 10:34 AM

Just use a soft cloth with light oil (I use 3 in 1 ) and wipe it down periodically. Same with the bore. Bill

CAP Black · 10-15-2012, 12:42 PM

Some places look to me like they need a good old fashioned cleaning. But nothing harsh - nothing abrasive. Mostly just TLC. Check this site for handy cleaning techniques.
Enjoy and preserve.
Jack

Sky Zero · 10-16-2012, 03:47 PM

So I just noticed that all the other lugers I've seen have a silver safety bar thing I've seen (the piece that pops up when you put the safety on) and mine seems to be black; did some come with black ones?

alanint · 10-16-2012, 06:11 PM

No, this would be a serious indication of a reblue. Are you sure that it hasn't simply darkened from skin oils over time?

With the top cannon removed, raise this bar and look at the backside to see if that's in the white.

Sky Zero · 10-17-2012, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

No, this would be a serious indication of a reblue. Are you sure that it hasn't simply darkened from skin oils over time?

With the top cannon removed, raise this bar and look at the backside to see if that's in the white.

nope it's definitely not dirty and the back is also black.. the finish on that bar seems better than all the other parts :/

Sky Zero · 10-17-2012, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

No, this would be a serious indication of a reblue. Are you sure that it hasn't simply darkened from skin oils over time?

With the top cannon removed, raise this bar and look at the backside to see if that's in the white.

here's a picture of it

skeeter4206 · 10-17-2012, 04:30 AM

looking at the pictures, it looks like the alignment marks on the barrel to the frame are off set. Cant quite tell in these pics, as they are a little blurry.

Could this mean a new barrel at some point in time?

alanint · 10-17-2012, 08:24 AM

Based partly on the safety bar and firing pin being blued, I believe your pistol to have been refinished.

Sky Zero · 10-17-2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeeter4206

looking at the pictures, it looks like the alignment marks on the barrel to the frame are off set. Cant quite tell in these pics, as they are a little blurry.

Could this mean a new barrel at some point in time?

well you're right about that, they are offset but just barely; the barrel's serial number matches the frame though so who knows. I've also read somewhere that it isn't necessarily an indication of a re-barreling but rather just an assembly process issue. I think. I don't exactly know, I thought I just read that somewhere on this website (or another one)

Sky Zero · 10-17-2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Based partly on the safety bar and firing pin being blued, I believe your pistol to have been refinished.

Do you think the entire thing or just those parts? Would there be a good way to tell by looking at the markings on the luger and checking for quality, clarity, etc?

mrerick · 10-17-2012, 01:26 PM

Also, the inside "5" digit on your trigger plate looks like it has serifs on the digit.

I haven't seen one with tooling marks like that (although it wasn't a normally visible area). It is hard to see exactly what's in there from the photo. I can't actually tell if it is a "5" digit.

I don't believe that Mauser used dies inside there with serif fonts. They were simple sans serif fonts. Your pistol's side plate should have the first digit of your serial number +1. Your serial digits are 402 so the number "5" should be stamped in there.

Often when a side plate was missing, you looked for one with the same last 2 digits stamped on the outside. This part fitment is critical to the function of the Luger, so Mauser started linking the plate to the specific firearm it left the factory on. for that reason one plate in 10,000 will be numbered to match a Mauser Luger. If the number 5 isn't stamped inside the plate, it was replaced at some point.

Marc

alanint · 10-17-2012, 01:59 PM

The "5"is there, but as mentioned, with a serif font and alot of tooling marks obscuring it, which is unusual.

Sky Zero · 10-17-2012, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

The "5"is there, but as mentioned, with a serif font and alot of tooling marks obscuring it, which is unusual.

Hmm so possibly it was scrubbed off by some refinisher and re-stamped to try and make it seem as authentic/original as possible?

tharpo · 10-17-2012, 04:10 PM

FYI
The L shaped lever in the back of your side plate is normally in the white and not blued. Also, the S shaped rear toggle coupling link is normally in the white.

Tom

mrerick · 10-17-2012, 04:24 PM

Tom,

I have one rather odd "42" date military proofed Banner (all matching) that I think was assembled after the war at Oberndorf from parts (speculation). It is the only Luger I have with the trigger plate pin blued. Oddly, it's snapped of on the inside, with the snapped off area blued also...

Marc

tharpo · 10-17-2012, 05:05 PM

Marc,
That is why I said "normally" in the white. One never knows what has happened to these guns in their lifetime. Now I believe the trigger plate lever PIN should be blued.

Tom

Sky Zero · 10-18-2012, 12:30 AM

hmmm

I thought I was buying an original finish luger. Guess I should have came here first! This L shaped thing on the back of the side plate, is that the trigger plate lever pin? Also, I did a quick google on rear toggle links and some come up blued (or at least black) on all of them.

alanint · 10-18-2012, 08:48 AM

No, the "L" shaped thing is the Trigger lever itself. The Lever pin would be the little bent rod, that holds the trigger lever into the sideplate at the bottom.

I'm not sure what you looked at when researching "toggle links", but what the members here were referring to was the tiny little pin, which secures the larger toggle axel pin in place. This little pin can be seen on the top, left hand side of the toggle joint, next to the knurled finger knob when looking down on the toggle. This tiny pin is supposed to be in the white, not blued.

tharpo · 10-18-2012, 11:22 AM

I was referring to the coupling link here.

Sky Zero · 10-18-2012, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

I'm not sure what you looked at when researching "toggle links", but what the members here were referring to was the tiny little pin, which secures the larger toggle axel pin in place. This little pin can be seen on the top, left hand side of the toggle joint, next to the knurled finger knob when looking down on the toggle. This tiny pin is supposed to be in the white, not blued.

Oh ok I was looking at a different part of the toggle action. Still new to lugers so I guess I don't know what everyone is talking about.

10-15-2012, 10:34 AM	#21
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,561 Times in 956 Posts	Just use a soft cloth with light oil (I use 3 in 1 ) and wipe it down periodically. Same with the bore. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

10-17-2012, 01:26 PM	#31
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Also, the inside "5" digit on your trigger plate looks like it has serifs on the digit. I haven't seen one with tooling marks like that (although it wasn't a normally visible area). It is hard to see exactly what's in there from the photo. I can't actually tell if it is a "5" digit. I don't believe that Mauser used dies inside there with serif fonts. They were simple sans serif fonts. Your pistol's side plate should have the first digit of your serial number +1. Your serial digits are 402 so the number "5" should be stamped in there. Often when a side plate was missing, you looked for one with the same last 2 digits stamped on the outside. This part fitment is critical to the function of the Luger, so Mauser started linking the plate to the specific firearm it left the factory on. for that reason one plate in 10,000 will be numbered to match a Mauser Luger. If the number 5 isn't stamped inside the plate, it was replaced at some point. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

10-17-2012, 04:24 PM	#35
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Tom, I have one rather odd "42" date military proofed Banner (all matching) that I think was assembled after the war at Oberndorf from parts (speculation). It is the only Luger I have with the trigger plate pin blued. Oddly, it's snapped of on the inside, with the snapped off area blued also... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

10-18-2012, 12:30 AM	#37
Sky Zero User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Michigan Posts: 308 Thanks: 134 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	hmmm I thought I was buying an original finish luger. Guess I should have came here first! This L shaped thing on the back of the side plate, is that the trigger plate lever pin? Also, I did a quick google on rear toggle links and some come up blued (or at least black) on all of them. Last edited by Sky Zero; 10-18-2012 at 12:38 AM. Reason: double correction

10-18-2012, 11:22 AM	#39
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 116 Thanked 382 Times in 157 Posts	I was referring to the coupling link here. Attached Thumbnails

10-15-2012, 12:42 PM	#22
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 168 Times in 96 Posts	Some places look to me like they need a good old fashioned cleaning. But nothing harsh - nothing abrasive. Mostly just TLC. Check this site for handy cleaning techniques. Enjoy and preserve. Jack

10-16-2012, 03:47 PM	#23
Sky Zero User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Michigan Posts: 308 Thanks: 134 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	So I just noticed that all the other lugers I've seen have a silver safety bar thing I've seen (the piece that pops up when you put the safety on) and mine seems to be black; did some come with black ones?

10-16-2012, 06:11 PM	#24
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	No, this would be a serious indication of a reblue. Are you sure that it hasn't simply darkened from skin oils over time? With the top cannon removed, raise this bar and look at the backside to see if that's in the white.

10-17-2012, 04:30 AM	#27
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	looking at the pictures, it looks like the alignment marks on the barrel to the frame are off set. Cant quite tell in these pics, as they are a little blurry. Could this mean a new barrel at some point in time?

10-17-2012, 08:24 AM	#28
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Based partly on the safety bar and firing pin being blued, I believe your pistol to have been refinished.

10-17-2012, 01:59 PM	#32
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	The "5"is there, but as mentioned, with a serif font and alot of tooling marks obscuring it, which is unusual.

10-17-2012, 04:10 PM	#34
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 116 Thanked 382 Times in 157 Posts	FYI The L shaped lever in the back of your side plate is normally in the white and not blued. Also, the S shaped rear toggle coupling link is normally in the white. Tom

10-17-2012, 05:05 PM	#36
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 116 Thanked 382 Times in 157 Posts	Marc, That is why I said "normally" in the white. One never knows what has happened to these guns in their lifetime. Now I believe the trigger plate lever PIN should be blued. Tom

10-18-2012, 08:48 AM	#38
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	No, the "L" shaped thing is the Trigger lever itself. The Lever pin would be the little bent rod, that holds the trigger lever into the sideplate at the bottom. I'm not sure what you looked at when researching "toggle links", but what the members here were referring to was the tiny little pin, which secures the larger toggle axel pin in place. This little pin can be seen on the top, left hand side of the toggle joint, next to the knurled finger knob when looking down on the toggle. This tiny pin is supposed to be in the white, not blued.