1900 american eagle with original ideal stock

[ithacaartist]

Glenn,

I'll give you a little more detail... There are a pair of tangs extending forward from the front each side of the Ideal stock. When they are slipped through the slots Sergio mentions, they are then spread apart by moving a separator in the tubular frame, which also shifts the frame into shape for use. Hooks on the leading ends of the tangs are engaged with lugs on the back/frame sides of the grips. You can see the hooked portions in one of the pics above. Thus locked to the grips, which are, in turn, fastened to the frame by three screws; One is the usual grip screw, two more are the source of the question about them above; two tappings must be created on each side of the frame to accommodate them. A good pic of the backside of one of the grips would make it all clear, but I hope this gives a general idea how it works.

The stock lug on the Parabellum pistol became standard military spec in 1914, I believe. Many commercials and contract guns don't have them, and usually a 1900 or '06 does not. The lug wasn't meant to be used, though I'd bet it surely was, on 4" pistols, but was part of the configuration you'd expect on Navy or Artillery model pistols, both of which were issued with wooden board stocks. Commercial Navies, Arties, and Carbines obviously had them...

[Sergio Natali]

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Glenn,

I'll give you a little more detail... There are a pair of tangs extending forward from the front each side of the Ideal stock. When they are slipped through the slots Sergio mentions, they are then spread apart by moving a separator in the tubular frame, which also shifts the frame into shape for use. Hooks on the leading ends of the tangs are engaged with lugs on the back/frame sides of the grips. You can see the hooked portions in one of the pics above. Thus locked to the grips, which are, in turn, fastened to the frame by three screws; One is the usual grip screw, two more are the source of the question about them above; two tappings must be created on each side of the frame to accommodate them. A good pic of the backside of one of the grips would make it all clear, but I hope this gives a general idea how it works.

The stock lug on the Parabellum pistol became standard military spec in 1914, I believe. Many commercials and contract guns don't have them, and usually a 1900 or '06 does not. The lug wasn't meant to be used, though I'd bet it surely was, on 4" pistols, but was part of the configuration you'd expect on Navy or Artillery model pistols, both of which were issued with wooden board stocks. Commercial Navies, Arties, and Carbines obviously had them...

Long, and very well detailed description, one of these days when I get some spare time I'll take some more pictures of the Ideal Stock, as well of the other Lugers.

[CorporalGungee]

there was an Idea Stock and grips very recently sold on eBay for $1794-- and $28-- shipping ; coming out of PA .
Sadly I was outbid ( shallow pockets ) .
The leather looked "too good" in my opinion ???

Item Numer : 190866951710

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IDEAL-LUGER-...vip=true&rt=nc

[ithacaartist]

While I was re-reading this thread, I began to wonder... Have any reproductions of the Ideal holster system ever been made? The basic mechanical concepts of these are quite simple, and the individual parts needed to construct one really look as if they could be made fairly easily. Jerry? Hugh? I could do the metal work if you guys each did your thing!

The "butt" of the system, in any pic I've ever seen of them, seems to put the edge of a piece of steel up against the shoulder when it's assembled and held for shooting. The usual artillery and navy rigs allow the tops' of the leather holsters use as a butt pad, but these Ideal stocks look like they might be a bit brutal on the shoulder. What am I missing?

[Dwight Gruber]

Iirc a now-deceased member of this Forum, Viggo G. Dereng hand-built a reproduction Ideal stock rig. Try a Forum search.

Shooting with an Ideal stock is not particularly uncomfortable, depending on how firmly you put it against your shoulder. Effects from pistol recoil are negligable.

--Dwight

[alanint]

There is literally NO market for this other than a talented craftsman making one for himself. As others have pointed out, it is fairly complex, is not comfortable to shoot with and perhaps most important, will never have a C&R status, so it can never be added to anything but a 16" barreled pistol.

[Ben M.]

the album of the recreated effort is in the members gallery, page 2, 3rd album from the top

[Lugerdoc]

IA, If you ever do build an Ideal stock, what you are missing is the Ideal grips to which it attaches. I do have a few sets in stock in the $500 to $750 range. TH

[ithacaartist]

I checked out the gallery...nice work. Darn that SBR stuff though! I was thinking once the CNC mill is set up to rout out the back sides of Luger grips, it wouldn't be that many more steps to program in the cuts to create the slots for the stock's tangs, and do it in steel. All the rest could be copied from an existing example, but would definitely have to be a labor of love, then never see the light of day. Yes, I'm dreamin'...

[Ron Wood]

Years ago I wrote up instructions for the Ideal stock for a collector. Just to add a bit more to this discussion perhaps the instructions will help visualize how the stock works:

Installation of Ideal Stock/Holster and Grips:

Installation of the grips is straightforward; they simply mount to the Luger the same as regular grips using the same screws.

To attach the stock/holster to the grips, start with the stock in the closed (shortest) position. Insert the top forks of the attaching iron into the top slots of the grips and then rotate the stock downward to place the lower forks into the lower slots of the grips. The stock is not secure at this point and can be removed simply by reversing the above steps.

If you look at the tubular frame of the stock, there are two rectangular slots on the top tube and one slot on the bottom tube. When the stock is in the closed position, a metal tab will be protruding from the top rear slot. While holding the attaching iron in the grip by placing your fingers under the bottom of the grip and your thumb over the top of the attaching iron firmly enough to depress the grip safety (the grip safety has nothing to do with assembly, just a tip on how firmly to hold with your thumb) with your other hand depress the tab protruding from the slot and extend the telescoping inner rods of the frame by pulling back on the frame. This action will expand the jointed forks of the attaching iron, locking the iron into the grips. Continue pulling until the metal tab snaps into the top forward slot of the frame and a second tab will snap into the bottom slot. The stock is now attached to the Luger and ready for use.

To disassemble, depress both tabs and push on the rear of the stock to collapse the telescoping tubes until the top tab resets into the top rear slot. Rotate the stock upward to disengage the attaching iron forks from the grips.

P.S. While we are on the subject of stocks, although I have posted this photo before, it gives a good overview of the types of stocks and attachments that were available.

[Ben M.]

there was a luger ideal rig, including plain wooden grips and the metal plates on ebay last week with a startin' bid of $1200. leather and metal looked decent. auction closed but i did not see if it sold and for how much. anyone keep track of this?

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Installation of the grips is straightforward; they simply mount to the Luger the same as regular grips using the same screws.

Thanks, Ron, for stating this more accurately. The description of the screws I posted above is incorrect. I can visualize how this works, now. The two "extra" screws visible on the grips simply hold the overlay of checkered wood onto the Ideal grip base. Initially, I understood--wrongly--that these two screws were needed to help bolster the grip setup against the forces of shooting the rig. I realize now that they are not for this purpose at all, but only for holding the wooden scales on. The interface of pistol to stock handles the forces this way, as I see it now. When a round goes off, rotational forces are created because the axis of the barrel is above the point of attachment of the stock, and also above where it is normally gripped by hand. There are therefore compressive forces acting on the top part of the attaching area, resisted by the solid, vertical piece of material which separates the mounting tangs; and there is tension produced at the bottom of the setup, which is resisted by the bottom "hook" of each tang. The bottom of the grip assembly is held by the grip screw, as you've pointed out; and this fastening is quite secure. I think it would have to withstand the bulk of the rotational force, but the bottom of the grip strap is where the most leverage is available, so it's all good. The Ideal system, it seems to me, is mechanically very clever. ...even though, as Doug points out, it may mot be "ideal"!