Someone Claims, This Is A Fake One? - Page 2

Paladinpainter · 04-18-2016, 08:52 AM

Don,
Welcome to the wonderful, complex world of Lugers.
Look at it this way: you have always wanted a Luger you could afford. In addition, because of the condition of the gun, you can shoot it without worrying that you might damage a "collectable" Luger. I think you have achieved your objective.
Could you have found one a little cheaper or in more original condition in Denmark? Perhaps. Only collectors who live there can tell you that.
Congratulations,
John

rhuff · 04-18-2016, 04:21 PM

It is a shooter grade Luger, and that is a good thing for your first Luger(careful, they are addictive). Now just get yourself some std. velocity FMJ ammo, and head to the range. The old Lugers are fun to shoot, and quite accurate to boot. Enjoy!!

DonColt · 04-19-2016, 03:30 PM

Dear Friends.

Thanks alot for all your comments.

I do not regret, that I purchased this gun - to me - it seems like a very funny example of that gun - and it shoots great. :-)

What About The 75 year jubilee model - does you know this gun? It's made in 1983 i guess

ithacaartist · 04-19-2016, 07:47 PM

Don,

You'll find Mauser's commemorative models occasionally. My impression is that since they originally sold at extra-high prices back then--I know a man whose father-in-law purchased one in the 80's and it was around $3k at that time--many of them were put away in the box to appreciate in value. I noticed a couple at auction a few weeks ago, and they had attained a level near $5k!

There is nothing particularly special about most of them as far as I know, aside from a special series serial number, which may be a bit different, and the commemorative markings on them. Unless this is your collecting niche, you'll be paying extra for mere cosmetics. Their re-make of the 1902 Cartridge Counter is one that is rare and distinctive, even as a reproduction, and the price one would command reflects this.

I won a M1900/2000 at auction not too long ago, for a nice price. It is one of the stainless steel guns made in Houston, Texas in the 1990s, but with a black finish, a special serial #, and commemorative engraved text. I have shot it a few times, but even though its parts are not numbered to match, they are even more difficult to find than parts for originals, so I avoid pushing its limits...

Dick Herman · 04-19-2016, 07:56 PM

The Mauser Parabellums that were manufactured in the 1970s are excellent examples of the Luger pistol. All quality fit and function. The finishes are fantastic. These firearms were manufactured with original Swiss Luger tooling and fixtures.

A very fine Parabellum collection can be made with lower cost than the earlier pre 1950 variations.

That is my 2 cents.

Sergio Natali · 04-20-2016, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Herman

The Mauser Parabellums that were manufactured in the 1970s are excellent examples of the Luger pistol. All quality fit and function. The finishes are fantastic. These firearms were manufactured with original Swiss Luger tooling and fixtures.

A very fine Parabellum collection can be made with lower cost than the earlier pre 1950 variations.

That is my 2 cents.

Of course I agree with Dick, and I would add that the quality of their steel is probably better than the one used decades before, so I gather they are safer to shoot.

DonVoigt · 04-20-2016, 09:40 AM

Don't these later pistols use some or many cast parts?
While serviceable, would thye be "better"?

Someone just asked me by PM, and I don't know the answer- as I don't own one of these late Mausers:

Are the typical small parts numbered to match?

ithacaartist · 04-20-2016, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Are the typical small parts numbered to match?

No, they are not.

Sergio Natali · 04-20-2016, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Don't these later pistols use some or many cast parts?
While serviceable, would thye be "better"?

Someone just asked me by PM, and I don't know the answer- as I don't own one of these late Mausers:

Are the typical small parts numbered to match?

I'm far from being an expert on metallurgy but I've always tought that forged parts are better than cast ones, at the same time I believe that these newish Lugers were made with stronger steels.

Dick Herman · 04-21-2016, 03:21 PM

Forgings versus castings is a very widely debated issue. Both methods of treating the base metals have positive results if properly applied. Modern steels are made with better alloying elements and more stringent quality control than years past. Many high quality firearms are made today with cast components. IMHO The Mauser Parabellums manufactured during the 1970s are better made than the ones made prior tto 1950. PS. I don't know if the Maurer Parabellums were forgings or castings.

DonVoigt · 04-21-2016, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Herman

Forgings versus castings is a very widely debated issue. Both methods of treating the base metals have positive results if properly applied. Modern steels are made with better alloying elements and more stringent quality control than years past. Many high quality firearms are made today with cast components. IMHO The Mauser Parabellums manufactured during the 1970s are better made than the ones made prior tto 1950. PS. I don't know if the Maurer Parabellums were forgings or castings.

Dick,
I have had the occasion to work on these and they are not made "better", but worse. JMHO.

Modern firearms are also made with "space age" materials, like aluminum and plastic- it does not necessarily make them better; but certainly does make them cheaper to produce and sell.

Dick Herman · 04-22-2016, 08:12 PM

This is intended to justify my opinion, it is not meant to start an argument.

As collectors of Lugers we appreciate the fit, function and finish of the early hand assembled pistols. Each gun was hand finished and each of the components were uniquely marked for that pistol. The early DWM and Swiss produced Parabellums are beautiful guns but not necessarily interchangeable with other Lugers.

The 1970 Mauser Parabellums were made with high quality steels, modern heat treating and modern manufacturing methods. The quality control of all the components was very efficient. So efficient that the pistol small components did not require marking for that gun. The parts were interchangeable.

The fit and finish of the Mauser Parabellums is made for a commercial market. The finish was of the type that Smith & Wesson used in this time period.

jrwinter44 · 05-16-2016, 07:07 PM

Something I noticed in European gun shops was the prevalence of refinished handguns. Many of these were nicely done with minimal buffing but were priced about the same as guns with original finishes. To some I know, it is natural to refinish "unsightly" signs of wear and they don't understand why I wouldn't consider it.

04-19-2016, 03:30 PM	#23
DonColt User Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Denmark Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	My Own Opinion Dear Friends. Thanks alot for all your comments. I do not regret, that I purchased this gun - to me - it seems like a very funny example of that gun - and it shoots great. :-) What About The 75 year jubilee model - does you know this gun? It's made in 1983 i guess

04-19-2016, 07:47 PM	#24
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	Don, You'll find Mauser's commemorative models occasionally. My impression is that since they originally sold at extra-high prices back then--I know a man whose father-in-law purchased one in the 80's and it was around $3k at that time--many of them were put away in the box to appreciate in value. I noticed a couple at auction a few weeks ago, and they had attained a level near $5k! There is nothing particularly special about most of them as far as I know, aside from a special series serial number, which may be a bit different, and the commemorative markings on them. Unless this is your collecting niche, you'll be paying extra for mere cosmetics. Their re-make of the 1902 Cartridge Counter is one that is rare and distinctive, even as a reproduction, and the price one would command reflects this. I won a M1900/2000 at auction not too long ago, for a nice price. It is one of the stainless steel guns made in Houston, Texas in the 1990s, but with a black finish, a special serial #, and commemorative engraved text. I have shot it a few times, but even though its parts are not numbered to match, they are even more difficult to find than parts for originals, so I avoid pushing its limits... __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

04-20-2016, 09:40 AM	#27
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Don't these later pistols use some or many cast parts? While serviceable, would thye be "better"? Someone just asked me by PM, and I don't know the answer- as I don't own one of these late Mausers: Are the typical small parts numbered to match? __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

04-21-2016, 03:21 PM	#30
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts	Forgings versus castings is a very widely debated issue. Both methods of treating the base metals have positive results if properly applied. Modern steels are made with better alloying elements and more stringent quality control than years past. Many high quality firearms are made today with cast components. IMHO The Mauser Parabellums manufactured during the 1970s are better made than the ones made prior tto 1950. PS. I don't know if the Maurer Parabellums were forgings or castings. Last edited by Dick Herman; 04-21-2016 at 03:24 PM. Reason: Discaimer

04-18-2016, 08:52 AM	#21
Paladinpainter User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vermont Posts: 64 Thanks: 14 Thanked 45 Times in 15 Posts	Don, Welcome to the wonderful, complex world of Lugers. Look at it this way: you have always wanted a Luger you could afford. In addition, because of the condition of the gun, you can shoot it without worrying that you might damage a "collectable" Luger. I think you have achieved your objective. Could you have found one a little cheaper or in more original condition in Denmark? Perhaps. Only collectors who live there can tell you that. Congratulations, John

04-18-2016, 04:21 PM	#22
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	It is a shooter grade Luger, and that is a good thing for your first Luger(careful, they are addictive). Now just get yourself some std. velocity FMJ ammo, and head to the range. The old Lugers are fun to shoot, and quite accurate to boot. Enjoy!!

04-19-2016, 07:56 PM	#25
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts	The Mauser Parabellums that were manufactured in the 1970s are excellent examples of the Luger pistol. All quality fit and function. The finishes are fantastic. These firearms were manufactured with original Swiss Luger tooling and fixtures. A very fine Parabellum collection can be made with lower cost than the earlier pre 1950 variations. That is my 2 cents.

04-22-2016, 08:12 PM	#32
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts	This is intended to justify my opinion, it is not meant to start an argument. As collectors of Lugers we appreciate the fit, function and finish of the early hand assembled pistols. Each gun was hand finished and each of the components were uniquely marked for that pistol. The early DWM and Swiss produced Parabellums are beautiful guns but not necessarily interchangeable with other Lugers. The 1970 Mauser Parabellums were made with high quality steels, modern heat treating and modern manufacturing methods. The quality control of all the components was very efficient. So efficient that the pistol small components did not require marking for that gun. The parts were interchangeable. The fit and finish of the Mauser Parabellums is made for a commercial market. The finish was of the type that Smith & Wesson used in this time period.

05-16-2016, 07:07 PM	#33
jrwinter44 User Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 21 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Something I noticed in European gun shops was the prevalence of refinished handguns. Many of these were nicely done with minimal buffing but were priced about the same as guns with original finishes. To some I know, it is natural to refinish "unsightly" signs of wear and they don't understand why I wouldn't consider it.