Seeking Artillery - Page 2

lugerholsterrepair · 08-20-2016, 09:16 PM

Looks re blued.. Some parts appear to be rework re-numbered. Might make a good shooter but that's what it is and how it's priced.

DonVoigt · 08-20-2016, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpellenb

Alright so talk to me about this...

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=49159

Not original. Refinished. Barrel and frame numbers appear to me to be pantographed( again not the way originally done".

IMO, they should have described it as a Artillery type shooter.

lugerholsterrepair · 08-20-2016, 11:15 PM

Naturally I'd like matching parts on an original gun, with or without matching mag, and 90+% finish with sound mechanicals. I intend to shoot this gun but treat it like it'll never be shot.

Tim, well this is not it.

Ben M. · 08-22-2016, 12:06 PM

to help study many:
http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=179_238

DonVoigt · 08-22-2016, 02:30 PM

Ben,
I'd buy the 1915 or 1916 if I wanted an Artillery; leaning toward the 1915.

Fewer numbers were produced, prices not bad; I did not look hard at either but the descriptions sound ok.

sheepherder · 08-22-2016, 03:03 PM

If you call Simpson's up, one of the sales people will take the pistol out of the vault and answer any questions you may have. My sales guy was pleasant and helpful, and most importantly, honest. I bought by CC right then and emailed my LGS FFL and had the Luger in something like 4 days.

Edward Tinker · 08-22-2016, 03:12 PM

I think the term 'rework' is overused.

As you hear folks call things a rework and mean by a depot or armory prior to WW2.

Anything reworked post WW2 or suspected should be labeled and sold as such IMHO

ithacaartist · 08-22-2016, 03:58 PM

I hadn't visited the Simpson offerings for a while, so I took a look. This "Mauser Stoeger Artillery" prompted a question: Why is there no notch for the front sight leaf present on the front of the receiver? For almost $16k, I'd like to know! http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=47107

John Sabato · 08-22-2016, 04:26 PM

Nice catch David... I don't think that is correct either.

kurusu · 08-22-2016, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

I hadn't visited the Simpson offerings for a while, so I took a look. This "Mauser Stoeger Artillery" prompted a question: Why is there no notch for the front sight leaf present on the front of the receiver? For almost $16k, I'd like to know! http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=47107

Even though I'm not into artillery Lugers myself, I have this to offer:

The artillery Luger is a WW-I thing. So, mistrust anything that is:

A) made by someone else other than DWM or Erfurt arsenal.

B) "double dated". According to Versailles treaty, Germany could no longer produce, or possess handguns with barrels longer than 10cm. The 1920 mark is a Weimar possession stamp, hou do your own math.

George Anderson · 08-22-2016, 05:00 PM

Here's a thread on Mr. Still's forum from 2005. Unfortunately the photos evaporated. It was a perfect two line Stoeger American Eagle artillery rig with "SAFE"' "LOADED". markings. As I recall, the receiver was properly notched. http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...-Artillery-Rig

DonVoigt · 08-22-2016, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurusu

Even though I'm not into artillery Lugers myself, I have this to offer:

The artillery Luger is a WW-I thing. So, mistrust anything that is:

A) made by someone else other than DWM or Erfurt arsenal.

B) "double dated". According to Versailles treaty, Germany could no longer produce, or possess handguns with barrels longer than 10cm. The 1920 mark is a Weimar possession stamp, hou do your own math.

Kurusu,

Double date Artillery lugers are or can be entirely acceptable.

The Landjaegeri used them with 8" barrels up to about 1929.
The Navy used them and also marked them during the Weimar era, they were under British control and didn't seem to care about small arms.

So don't condemn them all!

George Anderson · 08-22-2016, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurusu

B) "double dated". According to Versailles treaty, Germany could no longer produce, or possess handguns with barrels longer than 10cm. The 1920 mark is a Weimar possession stamp, hou do your own math.

The Versailles Treaty and its subsequent restrictions made no prohibitions on military pistol barrel lengths. The only restrictions were tied to military calibre and foreign sales. Germany was permitted to produce enough 9 mm P08s to supply the new one hundred thousand man army and the expanded police force.There is no mention of barrel lengths in any of the protocols.

tpellenb · 08-22-2016, 11:07 PM

The blue did look suspicious. Was really interested to see everyone's response. Didn't disappoint

John and John - I'm having a tough time seeing this notch, or lack there off.

Norme · 08-22-2016, 11:55 PM

Hi Tim.
The so called notch is a relief cut in the top front edge of the receiver to provide clearance for the rear sight when in it's lowest position. Many unused Artillery barrels were left over when the war ended and some "Commercial Artilleries" were assembled using these. Even more were produced by Mauser using these surplus barrels for their Siamese and Persian contracts in the 1930's, and a few were even assembled in 1946 when the Mauser factory was under French control. I don't know which, if any, of these Artilleries produced after 1918 had the "notch".
Regards, Norm

tpellenb · 08-23-2016, 08:43 PM

That's an awesome explanation Norm. definitely didn't see it first time around. So LP08's without the notch are likely parts guns assembled from P08 frames? Thanks for sharing!

08-20-2016, 09:16 PM	#21
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Looks re blued.. Some parts appear to be rework re-numbered. Might make a good shooter but that's what it is and how it's priced. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-20-2016, 11:15 PM	#23
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Naturally I'd like matching parts on an original gun, with or without matching mag, and 90+% finish with sound mechanicals. I intend to shoot this gun but treat it like it'll never be shot. Tim, well this is not it. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-22-2016, 02:30 PM	#25
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Ben, I'd buy the 1915 or 1916 if I wanted an Artillery; leaning toward the 1915. Fewer numbers were produced, prices not bad; I did not look hard at either but the descriptions sound ok. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

08-22-2016, 03:03 PM	#26
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	If you call Simpson's up, one of the sales people will take the pistol out of the vault and answer any questions you may have. My sales guy was pleasant and helpful, and most importantly, honest. I bought by CC right then and emailed my LGS FFL and had the Luger in something like 4 days. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter... Last edited by sheepherder; 08-22-2016 at 07:41 PM.

08-22-2016, 03:58 PM	#28
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	I hadn't visited the Simpson offerings for a while, so I took a look. This "Mauser Stoeger Artillery" prompted a question: Why is there no notch for the front sight leaf present on the front of the receiver? For almost $16k, I'd like to know! http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...ducts_id=47107 __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

08-22-2016, 12:06 PM	#24
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 488 Thanks: 90 Thanked 123 Times in 83 Posts	to help study many: http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=179_238

08-22-2016, 03:12 PM	#27
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	I think the term 'rework' is overused. As you hear folks call things a rework and mean by a depot or armory prior to WW2. Anything reworked post WW2 or suspected should be labeled and sold as such IMHO

08-22-2016, 04:26 PM	#29
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Nice catch David... I don't think that is correct either. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-22-2016, 05:00 PM	#31
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Here's a thread on Mr. Still's forum from 2005. Unfortunately the photos evaporated. It was a perfect two line Stoeger American Eagle artillery rig with "SAFE"' "LOADED". markings. As I recall, the receiver was properly notched. http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...-Artillery-Rig

08-22-2016, 11:07 PM	#34
tpellenb User Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Wilmington Delaware Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The blue did look suspicious. Was really interested to see everyone's response. Didn't disappoint John and John - I'm having a tough time seeing this notch, or lack there off.

08-22-2016, 11:55 PM	#35
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Tim. The so called notch is a relief cut in the top front edge of the receiver to provide clearance for the rear sight when in it's lowest position. Many unused Artillery barrels were left over when the war ended and some "Commercial Artilleries" were assembled using these. Even more were produced by Mauser using these surplus barrels for their Siamese and Persian contracts in the 1930's, and a few were even assembled in 1946 when the Mauser factory was under French control. I don't know which, if any, of these Artilleries produced after 1918 had the "notch". Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails

08-23-2016, 08:43 PM	#36
tpellenb User Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Wilmington Delaware Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	That's an awesome explanation Norm. definitely didn't see it first time around. So LP08's without the notch are likely parts guns assembled from P08 frames? Thanks for sharing!