New mark to me - Page 2

Eugen · 09-29-2016, 02:51 PM

I love such fascinating discussion and the resultant detailed info that I learn. Hats off particularly to John Sabato for his illumination. Thank you. I love this forum.

For our next discourse may I suggest that we determine "how many angels can dance on the tip of a (firing) pin." Would the count be different if it was fluted or not? LOL

DonVoigt · 09-29-2016, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Don,

Although I am not fluent in the German language, I was obliged to study the language for about 4 years way back in the middle of the last century....the German word "sicher" does as you indicate mean "safe" (or "secure") The use of the prefix Ge- as in Gesichert, indicates the past tense in a similar manner that the suffix -ed does in English....Therefore the appropriate translation of the word in German context would be "secured" or made safe. In a similar manner, the use of the "Geladen" on the extractor is translated as "loaded".

The use of the word "SAFE" on the guns intended for export to the USA, is intended to mimic those guns made in the USA where the word SAFE was used. Not many firearms made in this country were manufactured with loaded chamber indicators, so the Germans really didn't know what to mimic. They literally translated "Geladen" into the word "Loaded"...

I can't point you to a reference for this speculation, but my rusty (not trusty) German language skills combined with my small arms history knowledge and experience are the basis for my opinion.

So in the context of German language, the 'Gesichert" label in use for the Luger safety would be translated as "secured" (or "safe") in the American context.

Now if that didn't totally confuse you... I will try harder to raise the level of obfuscation on the issue in my next installment.

John,
I'm not any more confused than usual- but the actual "literal" translation would be "safed", the past tense of "to safe". If there is such a verb in English.

My only point was that the meaning of Gesichert is "safe" to an American pistolero(how is that for mixing languages) when applied to that position on a luger pistol.

I used to try to use "pig-german"(as in pig-latin) when traveling in Germany, it is amazing how often just putting a "Ger" in front of an English verb will work for a past tense.

Ron Wood · 09-29-2016, 04:16 PM

I also thought it was a joke, hence my comment about "bless you" and "nothing to sneeze about".

Ron

kurusu · 09-29-2016, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

I also thought it was a joke, hence my comment about "bless you" and "nothing to sneeze about".

Ron

I figured as much.

Tango3 · 09-29-2016, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurusu

And I think Tango3 was just joking.

Anyways, the early Portuguese Lugers say seguranca which means safety.

You got me. And I apologize for starting a back and forth wasting your time. I have a bizarre sense of humor, I'm told. Probably from 38 years of Middle School science instructing. Things kinda rub of on a person after awhile. But you've got to admit that at a glance, Gesichert kinda/sorta could be mistaken for Gesundheit. By the way, I can't believe the jimungus length of some of the German words in books/articles I'm looking at!

I also did it to illustrate one of what makes the Luger a little more complex for me...I know next to nothing about German ((or French or Russian or, well you get the picture).

Once again, apologies.

Eric

Tango3 · 09-29-2016, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Bless you! Luger complication is nothing to sneeze about.

Love it, Ron! Were you also a long time middle school teacher too?

Eric

cirelaw · 09-29-2016, 06:43 PM

I blame it on the nuns!

Tango3 · 09-29-2016, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Tango3,
I think you are "hooked" enough to buy several books and start studying the ins and outs of lugerdom.

Boy, Don, am I ever!

I'm reading everything I can get my hands on.

Eric

kurusu · 09-29-2016, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango3

I have a bizarre sense of humor, I'm told.

Eric

Just don't ever loose that sense of humor.

Tango3 · 09-29-2016, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Here is a picture of an Austrian barrel on a shooter. Is this the same as yours?

Other than saying "Made in Austria", no. It does have a capital N with the top of a P attached to the right side of the N with a little capital V under the head of that P. Next to that mark is a tiny spread winged eagle or falcon.

The seller does think it's a "post-war rework" which I'm guessing means it's had one or more modifications to a pre-existing handgun.

Eric

Tango3 · 09-29-2016, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurusu

Just don't ever loose that sense of humor.

I'll try not to, Mario. Heck, I'm pretty sure that I couldn't even if I wanted too!

My wife sometimes becomes exasperated with my humor, saying that it's like living with a middle school age teen. I counter this by pointing out that she's lucky I hadn't taught Kindergarten for 38 years.

Here's a meant-to-be humorous essay question I once asked an 8th grade Geography class, "How can Germany be full of millions of Germans when apparently there are no Gerwomans since they're never mentioned?" Drove them crazy! Another time I asked them to answer this: " Why is there Berlin? True or False? Justify your answer".

Eric

Tango3 · 09-29-2016, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

I blame it on the nuns!

Eric, I can relate to this. I was a 3rd through 8th grade student at St. Jude's Elementary. At the conclusion of 8th grade I was accepted into St. Joseph's Seminary for the priesthood. Fortunately for the Catholic Church, I discovered girls that summer, turning down the Seminary.

Eric

kurusu · 09-30-2016, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango3

I'll try not to, Mario. Heck, I'm pretty sure that I couldn't even if I wanted too!

My wife sometimes becomes exasperated with my humor, saying that it's like living with a middle school age teen. I counter this by pointing out that she's lucky I hadn't taught Kindergarten for 38 years.

Here's a meant-to-be humorous essay question I once asked an 8th grade Geography class, "How can Germany be full of millions of Germans when apparently there are no Gerwomans since they're never mentioned?" Drove them crazy! Another time I asked them to answer this: " Why is there Berlin? True or False? Justify your answer".

Eric

I'm lying to you right now. True? False?

Ron Wood · 09-30-2016, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango3

...Here's a meant-to-be humorous essay question I once asked an 8th grade Geography class, "How can Germany be full of millions of Germans when apparently there are no Gerwomans since they're never mentioned?" Drove them crazy! Another time I asked them to answer this: " Why is there Berlin? True or False? Justify your answer".

Eric

My favorite is "Define the universe and give 3 examples"

Tango3 · 09-30-2016, 08:54 PM

Kurusu, Ron...welcome to the Club!!

Congratulations!

Eric

Mac Cat · 10-01-2016, 01:11 PM

.... and you humor is appreciated here, too!

(I learned EVERTHING I needed to know in Kindergarten)

Tango3 · 10-01-2016, 01:24 PM

Much appreciated Mac Cat.

So true about kindergarten!

Eric

RShaw · 11-29-2016, 02:31 PM

John: well said.....

"Gesichert" means "secured" in the sense of being "locked" or rendered "safe"
"Sicher" means "sure" in the sense of being positive about a conviction.
"Sicherheit" = "security."
Example - "Aber sicher!" means "Of course!" same as "selbstverstaendlich" = "goes without saying!"

RShaw · 11-29-2016, 02:42 PM

Hi Tango3

The "Standard Catalog of Luger" has a whole chapter on markings- here's the reference:
http://selfdefensefund.com/wp-content/uploads/Luger.pdf

You can ID your P08 using this catalogue- values also included- book was published in 2006

09-29-2016, 02:51 PM	#21
Eugen User Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Newburgh,IN Posts: 790 Thanks: 394 Thanked 631 Times in 334 Posts	I love such fascinating discussion and the resultant detailed info that I learn. Hats off particularly to John Sabato for his illumination. Thank you. I love this forum. For our next discourse may I suggest that we determine "how many angels can dance on the tip of a (firing) pin." Would the count be different if it was fluted or not? LOL __________________ “God created war so that Americans would learn geography.” ― Mark Twain

09-29-2016, 04:16 PM	#23
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	I also thought it was a joke, hence my comment about "bless you" and "nothing to sneeze about". Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-29-2016, 02:31 PM	#38
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	John: well said..... "Gesichert" means "secured" in the sense of being "locked" or rendered "safe" "Sicher" means "sure" in the sense of being positive about a conviction. "Sicherheit" = "security." Example - "Aber sicher!" means "Of course!" same as "selbstverstaendlich" = "goes without saying!" __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

11-29-2016, 02:42 PM	#39
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Hi Tango3 The "Standard Catalog of Luger" has a whole chapter on markings- here's the reference: http://selfdefensefund.com/wp-content/uploads/Luger.pdf You can ID your P08 using this catalogue- values also included- book was published in 2006 __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

09-29-2016, 06:43 PM	#27
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I blame it on the nuns!

09-30-2016, 08:54 PM	#35
Tango3 User Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Michigan (Native American for "too much winter") Posts: 51 Thanks: 90 Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts	Kurusu, Ron...welcome to the Club!! Congratulations! Eric

10-01-2016, 01:11 PM	#36
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 731 Thanks: 2,095 Thanked 610 Times in 329 Posts	.... and you humor is appreciated here, too! (I learned EVERTHING I needed to know in Kindergarten)

10-01-2016, 01:24 PM	#37
Tango3 User Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Michigan (Native American for "too much winter") Posts: 51 Thanks: 90 Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts	Much appreciated Mac Cat. So true about kindergarten! Eric