New to me 1917 DWM

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by milesc2

I’m not entirely sure. I found it at cabelas priced WAY under 2K.
I don’t think they knew what they had because the prices there are usually unbelievably high.

Saw this on gunbroker so I have no clue what it may go for on there.

-Miles

Great examples of why one can't give a "price or value" for a luger.
It depends entirely on when, where, and how it is being sold; the motivation of the seller, and the number of buyers interested and how deep their pockets are!!!!

[Norme]

Hi Miles,
As an old sceptic I'm deeply uneasy about this gun, it's simply too good to be true. The blue is too blue the straw is too yellow, yet with one exception, all the red flags I look for are not present. The barrel serial numbers show halos, the receiver rails are properly "in the white" as are the muzzle and the small vertical pin in the rear toggle. The one exception? The firing pin should not be blued. On balance I'd give this gun a reluctant pass.
Norm

[milesc2]

It is in the white. Maybe the lighting in my picture is bad.

[milesc2]

Here is a better shot.

[milesc2]

Norme,

This one is just as nice or better than mine. Mine does show its age when closely examined (holster wear and grip strap) it is hard to show with the low resolution the photographs.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...196#post307196

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by milesc2

It is in the white. Maybe the lighting in my picture is bad.

It sure looks "blue" in the first photo.

[milesc2]

I may need to find a better lighting source. I can assure you it is in the white.
For the life of me I cannot find anything incorrect on this gun.

[milesc2]

Here are some better pictures of the straw parts.

[milesc2]

Closeup of the toggle pin.

[Sky Zero]

Was this thing stored in a wine cellar for 100 years? If not, I'd be cautious. That blueing looks almost immaculate, and shiny.

[DonVoigt]

I see nothing wrong with the 1917; occasionally lightning does strike- and this luger is a time capsule.

Issued late, captured early, taken care of for 100 years- nice to see.

[Geo99]

On one hand, I agree with Norme, it just looks too good to be true.

On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with it, except the toggle axle retaining pin deoes not look original - the dimple is inverted, where it should be sticking up just a hair in the center it has a hole, and there is blue or something in the hole. The pin also looks cleaned like it is new, not 100 yrs old. BUT - this pin may have been replaced as part of a repair, so it does not necessarily mean the gun was reblued. My question is why would such a clean unused gun need a repair?

My other concern about this gun would be if it really is as unused as it appears, why aren't the grip screws and front sight still bright blue? I have Imperial Lugers in less condition, that still show some fire blue on the screws and/or front sight.

I'll bet someone at Cabela's thought it was reblued. If it is original, I think a price of $2700-2800 is not out of line for this quality (98%+).

- Geo

[milesc2]

Geo99,

Would you mind posting some photos of the grip screws and front sight you are referring to?
As far as I can tell mine look just like these:
http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/960DWM16.htm
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?p=307196

Thanks,
-Miles

[4 Scale]

Whether original or refinished, you did well - congratulations.

The toggle s-link and trigger transfer lever in the side plate should be in the white, so you might check those.

In your first post you show fine detail of the sear bar lever (safety catch). The part that rises above the frame when the safety is engaged looks white, the part down in the frame has some blotchy corrosion, suggesting the top was carefully polished. It also raises the question as to why the environmental factors that caused the blotches on the lower part of the sear bar lever did not affect any other part of the pistol.

In post #28, I see a very small dimple behind the left toggle knob, and a few others that are even smaller on the edges, that are blue. On well-done re-blues, that is what I mainly look for (blue in post-manufacture marks, typically scratches or pits). Sometimes it takes a low power stereo microscope to tell, and that might be the case with your pistol.

I also assess the retaining pin in the toggle as having been removed and replaced at some time.

Without inspecting the pistol in hand I have no firm opinion but am suspicious based on the things noted. Given the stunning appearance of the pistol you might investigate further, local jewelers typically have stereo microscopes.

[Ron Wood]

I would have a hard time considering this piece as other than original. Like Norm I have to give it a cautious passing grade. I have a few 99% original pieces, they do turn up but it is truly rare.

[milesc2]

The toggle-s-link, trigger transfer bar, and inside of the breech block are all in the white.
I noticed the sear bar wear that you mentioned; I attributed the whiter finish on the top to the bar riding up and down in the frame over the years and the corrosion on the bottom due to the bar being in such close proximity to the wood grips for 100 years.
After having it in my hand and inspecting it very closely for several days I am convinced it is an original.
If anyone in Kansas City area wants to see it in person just let me know!

Best,
-Miles

[Ron Wood]

After reviewing the photos once more, with the caveat the photos will never be as satisfactory as in hand examination, I have decided to be more positive and come down on the side of original. The gun, in my opinion, is one of those rare instances where time has been exceedingly kind. It is a treasure.
Ron

[milesc2]

Geo99,

Just got a chance to take a closer look at the front sight and grip screws. They are fire blue. It does appear that they have a slight amount of holster wear but they are definitely fire blued.
Here are some better pictures.

Best,
-Miles

[Geo99]

miles,

Regarding the sight and screws, I would have to take some pictures of mine, but I see you already proved to yourself what I was talking about. The sight fire blue can be hard to see unless you hold it at just the right angle in bright light, and it is usually only a "ghost of blue, not like the solid blue on the sear spring or mag release spring.

After seeing the last 3 pics, I would have to agree that you got yourself an incredible bargain, from Cabela's of all places - this has to be a first! I never bother to look for guns at Cabela's but I may have to start. We have one down the street a bit from here.

- Geo

[4 Scale]

Originally Posted by milesc2

I noticed the sear bar wear that you mentioned; I attributed the whiter finish on the top to the bar riding up and down in the frame over the years and the corrosion on the bottom due to the bar being in such close proximity to the wood grips for 100 years.

Out of curiosity I removed the left grip on my two high-condition military P08s, both with original wood grips. The sear bars exhibit only light oxidation consistent with the overall finish and there is no polishing effect from the bar going up and down. But, it's only two examples.