Import Marks??? - Page 2

Lugerdoc · 01-08-2018, 05:14 PM

Ron is correct about the 1890 law, although in 1923 they modified it to require the marking to be "made in ---) followed by the country of origin on all items imported for resale. Therefore you'll see luger mags imported without pistols marked "Germany" and unmarked US MILITARY test lugers with no import markings. The importer marking were again changed in 1964, requiring the name (or abreviation) of the importer, location, and caliber to be added to the country of origin. This was left to the importer to handle, so I know of many that bypasted that step. Also know that was not required of individgles bringing personal property or FFL holders importing items for their own collection (not for resale) on a Form 6. The only way that I can justify Interarms and others getting away with importing tons of WW2 surplus items into the US without marking them, is that they were also supplying them to may countries militaries and just "forgot" to mark the items sold domestically. TH

cirelaw · 01-08-2018, 06:40 PM

Ron, I post them not to brag but display their beauty and craftmenship. I would guess that these are also a favorite of your. The differences are important. The test has no country of origin while the 1902 has the country of origin and has a beautiful eagle also! They do look great together especially in their fine condition. I commend you luger expertise~ Thank You My Mentor! One question, where were the holsters of the 1902 made? Were all holsters besides our test ones made in Germany and by what firm? Since the test holster is the rarest, what is the second rarest! Tom, very impressive! http://www.landofborchardt.com/holsters.html#american

alvin · 01-08-2018, 07:45 PM

Importer stamp is applicable on surplus guns. Export stamp (such as "Germany") is applicable on commercial guns. That's the way I understand these.

On value side, regular surplus Lugers with importer stamp does not worth much in my opinion. Of course, you can pay a lot for it to prove it actually worth something, but what's the purpose... There are tons of Lugers without importer stamp, not rare at all, then, the one with that stamp has to be much cheaper to be attractive. Especially on high condition samples. On low condition samples, probably does not matter that much -- it's like many fleas on head, all of them bite and are annoying, adding yet another flea won't cause more trouble.

Ron Wood · 01-08-2018, 07:50 PM

Eric,
I have no problem with your posting the photos of your excellent Lugers with and without the country of origin marking...what I was commenting on is you calling the GERMANY marking an import mark...it isn't, it is an export mark.

I have no idea of where the 1902 holsters were made because to the best of my knowledge there are no known 1902 holsters.

Were all holsters beside the Test holsters made in Germany? Of course not, but the question is too broad to answer. As to what firm, are you asking about US Military holsters, German military holsters, US commercial holsters, German commercial holsters?

The Test holster is not the rarest, there are a number of more limited surviving holsters, e.g. the Borchardt-Luger Swiss Trials, the Benke-Tiemann, etc.

I am not trying to pick on you, but it would be helpful if you limited your questions to a single topic rather than a shotgun inquiry about a variety of topics that would take several pages to answer.

cirelaw · 01-08-2018, 08:36 PM

Thank You!!I stand corrected~ Great Luger Lecture~~~ "I Did Not Know" Half The Fun Is Learning and the Other Half Is Remembering to remember!!!

Dick Herman · 01-08-2018, 08:56 PM

There are many Lugers we collect that would not be on the US market without “import marks” because of the scarcity or time released from their country’s arsenals.
Here are just a few importers that have allowed us to expand our collections; Odin brought the Siamese Lugers, CIA brought in Finnish Lugers and Simpson has brought in many very rare and exotic Lugers.
We all have our standards for building our collections, however, I recognize and appreciate the service that the importers have provided to allow me to build my collection.
I have put my two cents in the other “import marked” thread but felt the need to repeat part of it here.

cirelaw · 01-09-2018, 01:51 PM

Its like a tatoo of an ex-wife!!

01-08-2018, 05:14 PM	#21
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Ron is correct about the 1890 law, although in 1923 they modified it to require the marking to be "made in ---) followed by the country of origin on all items imported for resale. Therefore you'll see luger mags imported without pistols marked "Germany" and unmarked US MILITARY test lugers with no import markings. The importer marking were again changed in 1964, requiring the name (or abreviation) of the importer, location, and caliber to be added to the country of origin. This was left to the importer to handle, so I know of many that bypasted that step. Also know that was not required of individgles bringing personal property or FFL holders importing items for their own collection (not for resale) on a Form 6. The only way that I can justify Interarms and others getting away with importing tons of WW2 surplus items into the US without marking them, is that they were also supplying them to may countries militaries and just "forgot" to mark the items sold domestically. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected] Last edited by Lugerdoc; 01-08-2018 at 05:18 PM. Reason: spelling

01-08-2018, 07:50 PM	#24
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Eric, I have no problem with your posting the photos of your excellent Lugers with and without the country of origin marking...what I was commenting on is you calling the GERMANY marking an import mark...it isn't, it is an export mark. I have no idea of where the 1902 holsters were made because to the best of my knowledge there are no known 1902 holsters. Were all holsters beside the Test holsters made in Germany? Of course not, but the question is too broad to answer. As to what firm, are you asking about US Military holsters, German military holsters, US commercial holsters, German commercial holsters? The Test holster is not the rarest, there are a number of more limited surviving holsters, e.g. the Borchardt-Luger Swiss Trials, the Benke-Tiemann, etc. I am not trying to pick on you, but it would be helpful if you limited your questions to a single topic rather than a shotgun inquiry about a variety of topics that would take several pages to answer. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-08-2018, 06:40 PM	#22
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Ron, I post them not to brag but display their beauty and craftmenship. I would guess that these are also a favorite of your. The differences are important. The test has no country of origin while the 1902 has the country of origin and has a beautiful eagle also! They do look great together especially in their fine condition. I commend you luger expertise~ Thank You My Mentor! One question, where were the holsters of the 1902 made? Were all holsters besides our test ones made in Germany and by what firm? Since the test holster is the rarest, what is the second rarest! Tom, very impressive! http://www.landofborchardt.com/holsters.html#american

01-08-2018, 07:45 PM	#23
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Importer stamp is applicable on surplus guns. Export stamp (such as "Germany") is applicable on commercial guns. That's the way I understand these. On value side, regular surplus Lugers with importer stamp does not worth much in my opinion. Of course, you can pay a lot for it to prove it actually worth something, but what's the purpose... There are tons of Lugers without importer stamp, not rare at all, then, the one with that stamp has to be much cheaper to be attractive. Especially on high condition samples. On low condition samples, probably does not matter that much -- it's like many fleas on head, all of them bite and are annoying, adding yet another flea won't cause more trouble.

01-08-2018, 08:36 PM	#25
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Thank You!!I stand corrected~ Great Luger Lecture~~~ "I Did Not Know" Half The Fun Is Learning and the Other Half Is Remembering to remember!!!

01-08-2018, 08:56 PM	#26
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts	There are many Lugers we collect that would not be on the US market without “import marks” because of the scarcity or time released from their country’s arsenals. Here are just a few importers that have allowed us to expand our collections; Odin brought the Siamese Lugers, CIA brought in Finnish Lugers and Simpson has brought in many very rare and exotic Lugers. We all have our standards for building our collections, however, I recognize and appreciate the service that the importers have provided to allow me to build my collection. I have put my two cents in the other “import marked” thread but felt the need to repeat part of it here.

01-09-2018, 01:51 PM	#27
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Its like a tatoo of an ex-wife!!