9MMX19 reloading

[DavidJayUden]

David,
Are you telling us that your new Walther will not fire standard 9MM round nose ball ammo? I find this a little hard to believe.



No. I am saying that using the Missouri Bullet Company "Parabellum" 9 mm RN lead cast bullets in reloads the Walther PPQ will not allow them far enough into the barrel in order to close the slide completely as the lands actually contact the shoulders of the bullets. This only happens with those bullets because they are much more round than tapered or pointed. They look a bit like mini-.45ACP ball bullets. However those same bullets/loads DO work entirely fine in the Lugers.
dju

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

David,
Are you telling us that your new Walther will not fire standard 9MM round nose ball ammo? I find this a little hard to believe.



No. I am saying that using the Missouri Bullet Company "Parabellum" 9 mm RN lead cast bullets in reloads the Walther PPQ will not allow them far enough into the barrel in order to close the slide completely as the lands actually contact the shoulders of the bullets. This only happens with those bullets because they are much more round than tapered or pointed. They look a bit like mini-.45ACP ball bullets. However those same bullets/loads DO work entirely fine in the Lugers.
dju

Dave,

Strangely, I have experienced just the opposite with Missouri's 124 Grain Cast Round Nose Bullets.

When loaded to proper O.A.L., 1.173 inches, they cause constant jams in my Lugers.

As you suggest, the overly rounded bullet tip may be the cause of the problem.


Respectfully,


Sieger

[Rick W.]

I was about to set off on making myself a die in the garage this afternoon. I had read various articles about die designs improving in the past decade or so............then it dawned on me the issue. Me, not being overly intelligent, finally figured things out..........abeit slowly.

So I tried loading up 150x of 9mm's with the new deal and existing die set; same components that gave me fits. All gaged. Could not do that before, all were straight and fit in the gage nicely.

So......I think.............I found it.

As to brass, I explained earlier that I mainly use once fired local police brass when they qualify folks. So I have confidence in the source. Also some friends that do not reload but shoot heavily every week, have taken pity on me and gather their once fired brass........for me. I have made them wooden pistol cases in return, so all evens out. No, I do not go to a range pick out brass from the mud etc etc.....When I buy once fired preowned brass, 2-3 cents per case; so more economical than new. I would like to use new for everything, but I shoot too much and loss is high; besides my preowned brass suffices for my range work/plinking/fun. I think some of the choice of brass comes from working knowledge and knowing the source.

So as most things, you gotta stay with it if you wanna know more. This was a exasperating time, but we got thru it and ready to reap the rewards; not only from a $ point of view, but the pride of figuring it out rather than throwing mass quantities of money at it.........I was close to the latter, but lucked out at the last minute.

[Sieger]

Rick,

All's well that ends well!


Sieger

[Rick W.]

feels good..............very satisfying.............

[DavidJayUden]

So what was the actual solution/fix?
dju

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

So what was the actual solution/fix?
dju

Dave,

Only Rick seems to know.


Sieger

[rhuff]

I want to know!!!! I can't promise that I will remember it, but maybe.

[Rick W.]

In my particular environment, I was using a press from one vendor and dies from another vendor. Use what you have, it don't matter right? A press is a press, a die is a die right?

Not for a long, long time. But.........lately it did with different components. My original buy of 115 fmj Winchester bullets did me good for most of my shooting lifetime.

I fussed with the belling, overthought it, beat on it, whined with it etc; finally I feel in my own opinion that these plated bullets need more of a lead bullet type bell than a fmj type bullet bell. I am now at ease with that.

The seater that I have used for years in this setup with the 9mm, never screwed down to what some would call the proper vertical setup; was physically limited by the press top thickness and the die threading/nut.

Seating dies do their best to align bullets for entry into the brass case. My die was not fully in place; not completely seated correctly in the area of the bottom of seater die to ram surface. So I was not completely taking advantage of all of its alignment advantages.

So I am somewhat familiar with threading of parts and chasing of existing threading. The die threads are 7/8-14 fwiw to those that care. Chasing of existing threads is not too tough, so the cheapo die as I call it(just a name, nothing implied about real quality) now inserts where it should. I am now just off touching the roll crimp, which has more support during seating that before; not a lot; I know exactly how much, but won't bore the masses with that number. Once seated the cartridge is moved to a taper crimp die that does a modest capture of the bullet.

So just looking at the setup, did not infer the problem. I had to read and read about new concepts in seating dies, and trying apply those ideas to my seater die. Then it finally dawned...........the plated bullets in my loading situation needs all the edge that I can get in alignment assists. I loaded several hundred yesterday and today with all finished cartridges gaging properly.

So now it on to the square deal to figure out why the same alignment issues are occurring. Don't worry I won'[t post about that adventure here............

The plated bullets are what they are, less expensive; and are currently allowed on indoor ranges. Everything has nuances and limitations; some of those take time to figure out. Instant gratification syndrome never entered here, did not have anything hired done; or new purchases............although came close this time.

I have relearned my lesson again about posting here about detailed considerations; I will try to be more restrained in the future.

[DavidJayUden]

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but if I may summarize, briefly:
You increased the threads on the dies so they seat more deeply in the press, thereby giving better alignment of the bullet to the bore.
And you are concluding that this previous mis-alignment was the cause of the case rupture discussed in the original post?
Is this correct?
dju

[Rick W.]

David,

If you are not trying to put words in my mouth, I would simply suggest............. "don't"...........life is simpler that way.

My recent reloaded ammo had its problems. Showed up gradually, was really not noticeable in general shooting until my event happened. What totally caused the event to happen, lots of factors there; still to be processed by me.

I would surmise that bad ammo, ie some that would not gage properly would cause any handgun to have its ills. Autos have sensing devices to try to prevent events like I experienced, but still we see a few get out. I reckon some are never figured out fully; I am ok with that, life goes on. I am not sure factory ammo is the absolute cure all for problems with firearms, I have lost quite a few points in qualifications due to faulty factory ammo, so guess everyone has their day or troubles.

Used to be a lot of people reloaded or shot 9mm here, most of the reloaders are gone now for some reason. But thought a few lurkers might still appreciate the issues and approaches to making better ammo, and to renew practices that check tolerance if they got a bit lax like I did.............guess twas my mistake.

Don,

No one knows what short time of life is like more than me, borrowed time is so sweet..................so how I spend it with new brass or preowned brass is my own affair.

[DavidJayUden]

Rick:
My apologies if I got it wrong. Is "I don't know" the final answer?
I ask only because a number of knowledgeable persons have offered up years of experience in assisting you and may appreciate some "closure" here too.
dju

[Rick W.]

I thought I gave the reloaders some closure with putting in a correction to my loading system. They can peruse that all they want, and draw their own conclusions.............most of the reloaders I sensed here have fair comprehensional skills. And they think for themselves; not exactly a sky is falling group one might say.

No apology needed, the comment established positions in my eyes. I am not new to reloading even though I may sound that way, and did take that the wrong way.

The possible pistol woes, if any in reality, will be pondered in the future; no.......... I am not going to name the pistol etc etc. I am going to go thru the pistol myself, the best I can, but you can be sure I will not post that adventure here.

[Fyrtwuck]

I was having some of the same problems. My cure was a Lee factory crimp die. During set up, I use a strong magnifying glass and look at the end of the case to see if there is any outward bell at the case mouth after the bullet is seated and crimped. If there is, I just adjust the die a little bit at a time, reinsert the case and check it again.

I also check all of my reloads with a case gauge. Especially the ammo I use in a match.

As far as plated ammo, I’ve shot thousands of rounds of xtreme bullets through different guns. I load to the velocities listed for lead bullets in the manual.

[Rick W.]

I have read a little about the Lee factory crimp die. Looks like a worthwhile acquisition, works for you looks like.

My 9mm reloading was on a Dillon progressive that took generic reloading dies, 7/8-14. I think that has been worked out as per my last posts. Ammo seems to work again even with newer components.

My 45acp reloading now is on a square deal by Dillon which has small dies unique to that system. It really has no alignment system much, but with a compromise in belling/taper crimping; we get pretty good ammo now, all passes the gage tests easily; even with the plated bullets that gave issues. Not all wine and roses yet, but getting there I hope.

Last time to the range with a new beater Kimber CDP, my 45 gaged ammo, about 100 rounds, had four that would not feed into the chamber fro the magazine, go in about 90% and stop dead. Could not push it shut etc. Put those four in my pocket and went home...........all four would gage fine and easily. All four would enter the Kimber barrel with ease. So I dubbed them, the fab four; why don't know, but they had new notoriety.

I noticed the magazine feed angle for the top cartridge was up a bit, so theory said, the exposed area of the plated bullet was rubbing on top of the chamber, just a theory. So I adjusted the feed lips of the colt magazine to feed those four. Now everything feeds again, until the next oddity comes up. Has been a trip with the new components, almost like learning all over again. Have been looking for a case or two of real plated bullets, but kinda a scarce item now.

Good news on the Lee crimp die with the collet on top, I have wondered about that for the 30 Luger. Something to keep in the pocket sorta speak. I appreciate everyone's time in my trip here.

[rhuff]

Rick,

I am having very good luck with the Lee Factory Crimp die on loading bottle neck brass. As you stated, it is a collet crimp system with bottle neck brass, and works especially well, on 30 Luger, and 38-40 brass. No need to trim any of the brass, which I really am thrilled with. I have just recently started using one on my 45ACP loads with plated bullets, as I would occasionally find a round or two that would not go fully into battery on my 1911s. The jury is still out on it's use on the 45ACP brass.