My New 1917 DWM Luger questions - Page 2

DavidJayUden · 07-04-2019, 05:55 PM

Seems to me that it is a 1917 Artillery DWM, rebarreled, not simply shortened. Interesting that they used the full serial number inside the grips. The other marks may be from a previous gun that they were on?
An interesting piece to the Police Luger collector.
dju

Ron Wood · 07-04-2019, 08:22 PM

The barrel has been shortened and the sight band re-installed. A really nice job.
A tip of the hat to David (ithacaartist).
Ron

DonVoigt · 07-04-2019, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

The barrel has been shortened and the sight band re-installed. A really nice job.
A tip of the hat to David (ithacaartist).
Ron

3" barrel for a "baby" luger and how it is done:

BarrelBaggins · 07-04-2019, 08:50 PM

Awesome thanks for all the input guys! I’ve learned a lot so far. I just wish I knew when and what police were using this Luger. Is there a good chance this was used later by the Nazis? I’m just trying to find a logical story to how this pistol became a bring home from WW2.

DonVoigt · 07-04-2019, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarrelBaggins

Awesome thanks for all the input guys! I’ve learned a lot so far. I just wish I knew when and what police were using this Luger. Is there a good chance this was used later by the Nazis? I’m just trying to find a logical story to how this pistol became a bring home from WW2.

Yes, it is quite logical that it served in WWI, the Weimar police,
and after 1934 the police were still the "Police" but you can call them
Nazi if you want.

If it was/is a WWII bring back, of course it saw service until souveniered!

Doubs · 07-05-2019, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

The marking on the front of the TG is the "revisions commission stamp" and the normal Erfurt inspection crown/letter.

Don is correct that the frame is Erfurt while the receiver is DWM.

The C/RC (Revisions Commission) stamp indicates a part that the factory inspectors found a non-critical fault with but was passed as serviceable by RC inspectors. In the event of failure of such a part, the RC inspector would accept the responsibility. The C/RC is more often seen on Erfurt parts than on DWM. Below is an Erfurt receiver also marked C/RC.

BarrelBaggins · 07-05-2019, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I'm not convinced it is not a refinish from its time when the police sear safety was added.
The sear safety rivet is in the white, which is a pretty good sign that it is NOT a post period reblue.

This may represent a 1932/3 or even later addition of the sear safety, a time when a hot blue of all parts would have been possible.

I agree that the blue ejector and td lever, etc. are an anomaly one does not usually see.

Were most Lugers around 1932/3 refinished the way mine is or is there a good possibility it was done by non-armory?

BarrelBaggins · 07-05-2019, 08:13 AM

I also posted a picture (post #16) of the inside of my grips and they had some interesting markings. Does anyone know what those are and mean?

BarrelBaggins · 07-05-2019, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubs

Don is correct that the frame is Erfurt while the receiver is DWM.

The C/RC (Revisions Commission) stamp indicates a part that the factory inspectors found a non-critical fault with but was passed as serviceable by RC inspectors. In the event of failure of such a part, the RC inspector would accept the responsibility. The C/RC is more often seen on Erfurt parts than on DWM. Below is an Erfurt receiver also marked C/RC.

So does that mean the frame was replaced or an Erfurt RC inspector inspected this DWM possibly after WW1?

DonVoigt · 07-05-2019, 10:09 AM

The receiver was made by Erfurt, the "defect or variance" was noted and either corrected or passed by the RC at Erfurt, at the time the pistol was first made.

Corrected: the receiver is DWM, the mid link(and perhaps the entire toggle) is DWM and is a later replacement.

The pistol is an assemblage of parts, so asking question is fine- but don't expect any definitive answer about when it was done or who
re-worked or refinished it. JMHO.

BarrelBaggins · 07-05-2019, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

The receiver was made by Erfurt, the "defect or variance" was noted and either corrected or passed by the RC at Erfurt, at the time the pistol was first made.

Neither frame nor receiver are DWM, the mid link(and perhaps the entire toggle) is DWM and is a later replacement.

I doubt this pistol ever saw the inside of the DWM factory.

I thought the markings on the side was for military DWM?

BarrelBaggins · 07-05-2019, 10:21 AM

I read these markings are DWM

BarrelBaggins · 07-05-2019, 10:23 AM

I also read that DWM made most of the Artillery Lugers. Maybe my references are incorrect

Doubs · 07-05-2019, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarrelBaggins

I also read that DWM made most of the Artillery Lugers. Maybe my references are incorrect

Your receiver is DWM. Compare the DWM Eagle stamp on your Luger to the Eagle on my Erfurt receiver.

DWM did make far more Artillery Lugers than Erfurt. Erfurt only made Artillery Lugers one year: 1914. Jan Still says that only 23,000 Erfurt Artillery Lugers were made. Manufactured in blocks of 10,000 with the first block not having a suffix letter, the highest serial number Erfurt Artillery Luger will have a "b" suffix letter. DWM made them from 1914 until 1918.

It is interesting that many DWM Artillery Lugers have barrels supplied by Erfurt as indicated by the Prussian Eagle - the Eagle used by Erfurt inspectors - on the barrels near the right side of the receiver.

BarrelBaggins · 07-05-2019, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubs

Your receiver is DWM. Compare the DWM Eagle stamp on your Luger to the Eagle on my Erfurt receiver.

DWM did make far more Artillery Lugers than Erfurt. Erfurt only made Artillery Lugers one year: 1914. Jan Still says that only 23,000 Erfurt Artillery Lugers were made. Manufactured in blocks of 10,000 with the first block not having a suffix letter, the highest serial number Erfurt Artillery Luger will have a "b" suffix letter. DWM made them from 1914 until 1918.

It is interesting that many DWM Artillery Lugers have barrels supplied by Erfurt as indicated by the Prussian Eagle - the Eagle used by Erfurt inspectors - on the barrels near the right side of the receiver.

Is my frame a Erfurt then? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to figure out my lugers story. Been learning a lot from you guys

k98mike · 07-05-2019, 04:15 PM

Your frame has an "RC" stamp on the trigger guard, so it is an Erfurt frame. The "RC" stamp was almost never (or never) used on DWM pistols as they were a private firm and agreed to deliver pistols without flaws of any kind. The military arsenal at Erfurt could pass pistols with minor flaws with a government inspector signing off on it.

Norme · 07-05-2019, 04:26 PM

Hi Alex,
I'm of the opinion that your gun is an Erfurt with some replaced and renumbered parts from a DWM. Specifically the center toggle, side plate and possibly some other small parts.
Regards, Norm

BarrelBaggins · 07-05-2019, 04:36 PM

I did a lot of reading and it makes sense. A lot of the artillery Lugers were destroyed or converted for police use. Is there a way to tell when the Erfurt frame was made?

DonVoigt · 07-05-2019, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarrelBaggins

I did a lot of reading and it makes sense. A lot of the artillery Lugers were destroyed or converted for police use. Is there a way to tell when the Erfurt frame was made?

Not exactly, quick answer is 1914 to 1918, since it has the artillery sight cut on top of the chamber.
If the upper matches the lower, the date on the chamber is the year it was made.

DonVoigt · 07-05-2019, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubs

Your receiver is DWM. Compare the DWM Eagle stamp on your Luger to the Eagle on my Erfurt receiver.

DWM did make far more Artillery Lugers than Erfurt. Erfurt only made Artillery Lugers one year: 1914. Jan Still says that only 23,000 Erfurt Artillery Lugers were made. Manufactured in blocks of 10,000 with the first block not having a suffix letter, the highest serial number Erfurt Artillery Luger will have a "b" suffix letter. DWM made them from 1914 until 1918.

It is interesting that many DWM Artillery Lugers have barrels supplied by Erfurt as indicated by the Prussian Eagle - the Eagle used by Erfurt inspectors - on the barrels near the right side of the receiver.

The OP frame is definitely Erfurt, it has Erfurt eagle not DWM.
It also has the Erfurt inspection on the trigger guard, something that DWM did not do.

07-04-2019, 08:22 PM	#22
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	The barrel has been shortened and the sight band re-installed. A really nice job. A tip of the hat to David (ithacaartist). Ron Attached Thumbnails __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-05-2019, 10:09 AM	#30
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	The receiver was made by Erfurt, the "defect or variance" was noted and either corrected or passed by the RC at Erfurt, at the time the pistol was first made. Corrected: the receiver is DWM, the mid link(and perhaps the entire toggle) is DWM and is a later replacement. The pistol is an assemblage of parts, so asking question is fine- but don't expect any definitive answer about when it was done or who re-worked or refinished it. JMHO. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

07-05-2019, 10:21 AM	#32
BarrelBaggins User Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 23 Thanks: 22 Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts	I read these markings are DWM Attached Thumbnails

07-05-2019, 04:15 PM	#36
k98mike User Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Newnan, GA Posts: 141 Thanks: 280 Thanked 48 Times in 30 Posts	Erfurt Your frame has an "RC" stamp on the trigger guard, so it is an Erfurt frame. The "RC" stamp was almost never (or never) used on DWM pistols as they were a private firm and agreed to deliver pistols without flaws of any kind. The military arsenal at Erfurt could pass pistols with minor flaws with a government inspector signing off on it.

07-04-2019, 05:55 PM	#21
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Seems to me that it is a 1917 Artillery DWM, rebarreled, not simply shortened. Interesting that they used the full serial number inside the grips. The other marks may be from a previous gun that they were on? An interesting piece to the Police Luger collector. dju

07-04-2019, 08:50 PM	#24
BarrelBaggins User Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 23 Thanks: 22 Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts	Awesome thanks for all the input guys! I’ve learned a lot so far. I just wish I knew when and what police were using this Luger. Is there a good chance this was used later by the Nazis? I’m just trying to find a logical story to how this pistol became a bring home from WW2.

07-05-2019, 08:13 AM	#28
BarrelBaggins User Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 23 Thanks: 22 Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts	I also posted a picture (post #16) of the inside of my grips and they had some interesting markings. Does anyone know what those are and mean?

07-05-2019, 10:23 AM	#33
BarrelBaggins User Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 23 Thanks: 22 Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts	I also read that DWM made most of the Artillery Lugers. Maybe my references are incorrect

07-05-2019, 04:26 PM	#37
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Alex, I'm of the opinion that your gun is an Erfurt with some replaced and renumbered parts from a DWM. Specifically the center toggle, side plate and possibly some other small parts. Regards, Norm

07-05-2019, 04:36 PM	#38
BarrelBaggins User Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 23 Thanks: 22 Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts	I did a lot of reading and it makes sense. A lot of the artillery Lugers were destroyed or converted for police use. Is there a way to tell when the Erfurt frame was made?