Luger with no date stamp - Page 2

Yakman · 01-06-2020, 03:01 PM

I don't think anyone would doubt this is a post WW1 rework for the commercial market, and by the "MADE IN GERMANY" stamped on the replacement barrel, the US market. The rework appears to be very nicely done and the gun appears to have remained in nice condition. Except for the barrel, the Luger and most of its parts, by their markings, are Erfurt. The grip screws don't appear to be marked.

I think a reworked Erfurt for the commercial market is scarce. The vast majority of post war Lugers are DWM, and I'm not sure how many of them were reworked surplus by DWM, as opposed to Lugers made with all new made parts. I do have a 1920 com... oops... alphabet commercial Navy in the "r" suffix range that has obviouly reworked surplus parts. The barrel has a Navy firing proof, but is otherwise unnumbered and unmarked. I have never seen an Erfurt rework that could be attributed to DWM.

Probably what's the most curious thing to me about this pistol is the Proof House style and placement of the commercial firing proofs. The one in the usual place on the left side of the barrel extension is hoizontal as is usual on prewar commercials instead of verticle as is usual on post war Lugers. Next is the placing of another horizontal firing proof on the left rail of the frame, directly below the one on the barrel extension. Firing proofs would normally be placed on the barrel, barrel extention, and left side of the toggle. I don't understand why there would even be one at all on the frame. And then the toggle, the usual place would be on the left side. On this Luger, if it is even a firing proof at all, is on the top of the front link, to the left of the extractor. I'm only guessing that is a proof. It looks to me like a crown over the two upright sides of an "N", absent the center slant of the "N". I guess this to be an "N" because the serifs are correctly placed for an "N". The center is missing for whatever the reason.

I think this is a nice Luger and an interesting conversation piece.

Jack

Doubs · 01-06-2020, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakman

Probably what's the most curious thing to me about this pistol is the Proof House style and placement of the commercial firing proofs. And then the toggle, the usual place would be on the left side. On this Luger, if it is even a firing proof at all, is on the top of the front link, to the left of the extractor. I'm only guessing that is a proof. It looks to me like a crown over the two upright sides of an "N", absent the center slant of the "N". Jack

If, during the rework, the breech block - a major functioning part - was replaced, then a proof mark was likely required just as it would be on the new barrel. I'm fairly certain that the proof mark is a C/N.

None of the OP's pictures show the breech block serial number but I suspect that it's been replaced. Even if not, it's still reasonably logical that the breech block would be proof marked. Reworks after WW1 are a wonderland of unusual variations and markings.

Yakman · 01-06-2020, 05:48 PM

If this Erfurt is like one I have the number on the breech block is on the left side, toward the rear and not visible with the toggle in the barrel extension. The extractor is numbered, for whatever that's worth. Only Yanik213 can tell us if the block is numbered. The pistol, having been military, has military proof house firing proofs. For non military use it would have been proofed again by the civil proof house, which ever one that was for this gun.

I would like to say the old military firing proofs would not do, but just as soon as I do there'll be all kinds of folks with post war military reworks, Germany marked, that have no civil proofs. Point being one can make no flat statements, exceptions will pop up.

I would very much like to know who reworked it and where it was proofed.

By the way, from what can be seen of the magazine in the one picture, it looks very nice, also.

Jack

Yakman · 01-06-2020, 10:53 PM

Thanks Ed, for sending me back to the beginning of this thread. Dwight Gruber's assertion made me research a little further and answer one of my own questions. The forth proof on the frame rail is there as per the 1891 Proof Law.

Jack

01-06-2020, 03:01 PM	#1
Yakman User Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Indiana Posts: 119 Thanks: 881 Thanked 81 Times in 40 Posts	I don't think anyone would doubt this is a post WW1 rework for the commercial market, and by the "MADE IN GERMANY" stamped on the replacement barrel, the US market. The rework appears to be very nicely done and the gun appears to have remained in nice condition. Except for the barrel, the Luger and most of its parts, by their markings, are Erfurt. The grip screws don't appear to be marked. I think a reworked Erfurt for the commercial market is scarce. The vast majority of post war Lugers are DWM, and I'm not sure how many of them were reworked surplus by DWM, as opposed to Lugers made with all new made parts. I do have a 1920 com... oops... alphabet commercial Navy in the "r" suffix range that has obviouly reworked surplus parts. The barrel has a Navy firing proof, but is otherwise unnumbered and unmarked. I have never seen an Erfurt rework that could be attributed to DWM. Probably what's the most curious thing to me about this pistol is the Proof House style and placement of the commercial firing proofs. The one in the usual place on the left side of the barrel extension is hoizontal as is usual on prewar commercials instead of verticle as is usual on post war Lugers. Next is the placing of another horizontal firing proof on the left rail of the frame, directly below the one on the barrel extension. Firing proofs would normally be placed on the barrel, barrel extention, and left side of the toggle. I don't understand why there would even be one at all on the frame. And then the toggle, the usual place would be on the left side. On this Luger, if it is even a firing proof at all, is on the top of the front link, to the left of the extractor. I'm only guessing that is a proof. It looks to me like a crown over the two upright sides of an "N", absent the center slant of the "N". I guess this to be an "N" because the serifs are correctly placed for an "N". The center is missing for whatever the reason. I think this is a nice Luger and an interesting conversation piece. Jack Last edited by Yakman; 01-06-2020 at 05:17 PM.

01-06-2020, 05:48 PM	#3
Yakman User Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Indiana Posts: 119 Thanks: 881 Thanked 81 Times in 40 Posts	If this Erfurt is like one I have the number on the breech block is on the left side, toward the rear and not visible with the toggle in the barrel extension. The extractor is numbered, for whatever that's worth. Only Yanik213 can tell us if the block is numbered. The pistol, having been military, has military proof house firing proofs. For non military use it would have been proofed again by the civil proof house, which ever one that was for this gun. I would like to say the old military firing proofs would not do, but just as soon as I do there'll be all kinds of folks with post war military reworks, Germany marked, that have no civil proofs. Point being one can make no flat statements, exceptions will pop up. I would very much like to know who reworked it and where it was proofed. By the way, from what can be seen of the magazine in the one picture, it looks very nice, also. Jack

01-06-2020, 10:53 PM	#4
Yakman User Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Indiana Posts: 119 Thanks: 881 Thanked 81 Times in 40 Posts	Thanks Ed, for sending me back to the beginning of this thread. Dwight Gruber's assertion made me research a little further and answer one of my own questions. The forth proof on the frame rail is there as per the 1891 Proof Law. Jack