This 1899 Parabellum sold for a huge amount of money today... - Page 3

Guisan · 08-28-2009, 03:24 AM

According to Eugen Heer these 20 pistols were no production models, they were mostly hand made without Borchardt or the management knowing. (page 164)
It seems that DWM wanted to start up regular production after a definite Swiss order had been received.

Guisan.

Vlim · 08-28-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

they were mostly hand made without Borchardt or the management knowing. (page 164)

Hmmm. Doubtful

Guisan · 08-28-2009, 08:59 AM

Well, as the rest of the well documented story in that book reads, uncle George had his reasons for that but as I was still liquid at that time I can't confirm it from my own experiences...

Guisan.

Vlim · 08-28-2009, 09:09 AM

lol, I know the problem.

Well, Luger had his own development shop and quite a bit of autonomy so I can live with the idea that the initial series was knocked off at the development department (which is not uncommon). Luger and Borchardt had a good relationship, although there was a share of professional disputes now and again. They lived near each other, probably took the same tram to the company, were members of the same shooting club and visited each other on a regular basis (as did their widows after the men had died), so one of them doing something without the other one knowing about it seems doubtful.

Guisan · 08-28-2009, 05:14 PM

Well there might have been some kind of competition between the two, maybe George wanted to make a point...
Again we were not there and too many has been written by people that "knew them all" so let's leave it as is as we won't find the true answer anyway.

Guisan.

alvin · 08-28-2009, 07:22 PM

[Reading report of 8/28]

Still reading the landofborchardt.com article..... One drawback so far, detail comparisons were performed between #22 and later production guns or what he considered wrong/faked guns (up to the barrel section), delta here and there. That tells #22 being different from those, but to make the picture perfect/complete, comparison of #21 and #22 will be great. It's a $300K comparison.

08-28-2009, 03:24 AM	#41
Guisan User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 112 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	According to Eugen Heer these 20 pistols were no production models, they were mostly hand made without Borchardt or the management knowing. (page 164) It seems that DWM wanted to start up regular production after a definite Swiss order had been received. Guisan. __________________ Fight to your last cartridge, then fight with your bayonets. No surrender. Fight to the death. --Gen. Henri Guisan, Switzerland, July '40

08-28-2009, 08:59 AM	#43
Guisan User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 112 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Well, as the rest of the well documented story in that book reads, uncle George had his reasons for that but as I was still liquid at that time I can't confirm it from my own experiences... Guisan. __________________ Fight to your last cartridge, then fight with your bayonets. No surrender. Fight to the death. --Gen. Henri Guisan, Switzerland, July '40

08-28-2009, 05:14 PM	#45
Guisan User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 112 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Well there might have been some kind of competition between the two, maybe George wanted to make a point... Again we were not there and too many has been written by people that "knew them all" so let's leave it as is as we won't find the true answer anyway. Guisan. __________________ Fight to your last cartridge, then fight with your bayonets. No surrender. Fight to the death. --Gen. Henri Guisan, Switzerland, July '40

08-28-2009, 09:09 AM	#44
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	lol, I know the problem. Well, Luger had his own development shop and quite a bit of autonomy so I can live with the idea that the initial series was knocked off at the development department (which is not uncommon). Luger and Borchardt had a good relationship, although there was a share of professional disputes now and again. They lived near each other, probably took the same tram to the company, were members of the same shooting club and visited each other on a regular basis (as did their widows after the men had died), so one of them doing something without the other one knowing about it seems doubtful.

08-28-2009, 07:22 PM	#46
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	[Reading report of 8/28] Still reading the landofborchardt.com article..... One drawback so far, detail comparisons were performed between #22 and later production guns or what he considered wrong/faked guns (up to the barrel section), delta here and there. That tells #22 being different from those, but to make the picture perfect/complete, comparison of #21 and #22 will be great. It's a $300K comparison.