Reloading help for the .30 cal. - Page 3

cliffdropover1 · 08-11-2014, 09:35 AM

Just found that the Hodgdon website shows a load using W231. It is for a 93 grain FMJ bullet. Maximum load at 4.2 grains. Now at least I have somewhat of a starting point with W231.

K.Wilhelm · 08-11-2014, 09:59 AM

I found the same recommended starting charge for HP-38, but found it didn't lock the slide back on empty. So I upped the charge a little at a time until slide lock back happened. KW

cliffdropover1 · 08-12-2014, 07:07 PM

Update--I loaded some of the 100 grain round nose flat point bullets. I started at 3.0 grains of W231. Then 3.2--3.4--3.8--4.0--4.2. The toggle would not work with 3.2--3.4, but started to work with 3.8. 4.2 worked well. BUT the bullets were key holing at 7 yards as the bullets rear does measure .309, but the rest of the bullet then abruptly tapers to .306. I am going back to the few .90 grain hollow points I have and will post those results soon.

Sieger · 08-13-2014, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffdropover1

Update--I loaded some of the 100 grain round nose flat point bullets. I started at 3.0 grains of W231. Then 3.2--3.4--3.8--4.0--4.2. The toggle would not work with 3.2--3.4, but started to work with 3.8. 4.2 worked well. BUT the bullets were key holing at 7 yards as the bullets rear does measure .309, but the rest of the bullet then abruptly tapers to .306. I am going back to the few .90 grain hollow points I have and will post those results soon.

Hi,

Even though the original DWM bullets were at .309, the groove diameter in these is .311, so don't be afraid to try fatter bullets.

Sieger

rhuff · 08-13-2014, 04:44 PM

Your load with the 100gr LRNFP bullets may not be stabilizing the bullet, and allowing it to tumble.

cliffdropover1 · 08-13-2014, 09:40 PM

Update number two--basically my reloads suck. The Luger (as I stated earlier) was not designed to shoot hollow points so they like to hang up on the feed ramp. Also, comparing these to factory ammo, my loads are too light. I was lucky to hear from Western Bullet today and hope to get some RNL at .93 grains. When I do, I will try to develop a proper load for my gun.. It does shoot great with factory loads.

Sieger · 08-14-2014, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffdropover1

Update number two--basically my reloads suck. The Luger (as I stated earlier) was not designed to shoot hollow points so they like to hang up on the feed ramp. Also, comparing these to factory ammo, my loads are too light. I was lucky to hear from Western Bullet today and hope to get some RNL at .93 grains. When I do, I will try to develop a proper load for my gun.. It does shoot great with factory loads.

Hi,

Many hollow point bullets feed just fine in Lugers!

Please search for the post I did on how to determine proper O.A.L. for a new bullet type. In it, I explain it all.

By the way. DWM did, indeed, make hollow points in 7.65mm, for use in Lugers.

Sieger

rhuff · 08-14-2014, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffdropover1

Update number two--basically my reloads suck. The Luger (as I stated earlier) was not designed to shoot hollow points so they like to hang up on the feed ramp. Also, comparing these to factory ammo, my loads are too light. I was lucky to hear from Western Bullet today and hope to get some RNL at .93 grains. When I do, I will try to develop a proper load for my gun.. It does shoot great with factory loads.

Glad that you finally got in contact with Western bullets. I have loaded a fair amount of their bullets with good results.

If you measure the Western Bullet LRN, you will find a diameter in the .310-.312in. range(+/-). They work out well in the original(generous) Luger barrels.....not so much in my Bar-Sto barrels in 30 Luger that are not bored oversize, actually, quite tight.

I load these bullets as long as possible(OAL). I seat them to where the case mouth is just covering the lube groove. Since the 30 Luger head spaces on the case shoulder, and not the case mouth, your taper crimp is not as critical, but don't overcrimp them. They function well for me, and I hope that they do for you also.

Keep us informed.

LU1900 · 08-14-2014, 07:54 PM

You can't find fiocchi bullets ?
I use them , work nicely

cliffdropover1 · 08-14-2014, 09:36 PM

Sorry to disagree, but I believe that these particular hollow point bullets are not well liked by my Luger. (Or my friend's Luger) They are Hornady XTP. This has a flat point jacketed hollow point. I loaded them to 1.166 OAL when the manuals say 1.175 is max. for OAL. I have some .86 grain bullets coming from Midway that measure .308 and some .93 grain from Western that measure .309. I am looking forward to finally having the correct bullet to load and am sure I will be successful here. And finally to rhuf--how about sharing your load data--powder type and amount of grains for those bullets you get from Western? It sure might make my life a bit easier. Thanks to all for the help.

rhuff · 08-15-2014, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LU1900

You can't find fiocchi bullets ?
I use them , work nicely

I really wish that we could purchase Fiocchi 93gr FMJ bullets in the USA, but they are not available here. We can only purchase the Fiocchi ammo loaded with these bullets. I would purchase a lot of them in a heartbeat if they were available at a decent price point.

rhuff · 08-15-2014, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffdropover1

Sorry to disagree, but I believe that these particular hollow point bullets are not well liked by my Luger. (Or my friend's Luger) They are Hornady XTP. This has a flat point jacketed hollow point. I loaded them to 1.166 OAL when the manuals say 1.175 is max. for OAL. I have some .86 grain bullets coming from Midway that measure .308 and some .93 grain from Western that measure .309. I am looking forward to finally having the correct bullet to load and am sure I will be successful here. And finally to rhuf--how about sharing your load data--powder type and amount of grains for those bullets you get from Western? It sure might make my life a bit easier. Thanks to all for the help.

My loads for the Western Bullet are:

(1) 93gr LRN Bullseye 4.0gr @ 1.150+/- OAL This loading is reported as being a duplicate of factory loading.

(2) 93gr LRN Unique 5.1gr @ 1.157+/- OAL I have not been able to fully test this load, but have high hopes for it.

These loads are NEAR/AT MAX LOADINGS, so back off 10% from my numbers of powder loads, and work them up for your Luger.

Good luck, and keep us informed as to outcome.

cliffdropover1 · 08-17-2014, 09:51 PM

I went to the range today with .86 grain bullets loaded at 3.8 and 4.1 of Bullseye. OAL was 1.158 +/- . Since I don't have a chronograph, I go by feel. Recoil was much less than Fiocchi factory ammo. They would not feed properly as they short stroked. I am going to increase the OAL to match the Fiocchi bullet and gradually increase the powder. I will keep you posted. Also I went to a gun show yesterday and they had a great deal of the Fiocchi ammo, so I was able to get ammo that does work great in my Luger.

LU1900 · 08-18-2014, 12:26 AM

I ask to a german seller where I buy my bullets : they don't send in USA , sorry
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5048041

Hugh · 08-18-2014, 08:20 PM

I worked these loads up several years ago, they functioned fine in my Lugers. Sorry nothing in the requested powders, as stated by others, fast powders like Bullseye, Red Dot & WW231/HP38 did not function well in my tests. The slower powders worked best;, Unique, Blue Dot, Green Dot ,HS-7, IMR SR4756.

cliffdropover1 · 08-18-2014, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffdropover1

I went to the range today with .86 grain bullets loaded at 3.8 and 4.1 of Bullseye. OAL was 1.158 +/- . Since I don't have a chronograph, I go by feel. Recoil was much less than Fiocchi factory ammo. They would not feed properly as they short stroked. I am going to increase the OAL to match the Fiocchi bullet and gradually increase the powder. I will keep you posted. Also I went to a gun show yesterday and they had a great deal of the Fiocchi ammo, so I was able to get ammo that does work great in my Luger.

Perhaps a bit of explanation here might help. I did load this caliber about 50 years ago with Bullseye and worked up the load myself. No manuals existed then (at least for me) and the bullet was a .93 grain lead bullet used for plinking in a 30-30 or 30.06. There was only one person in the Cincinnati area that sold reloading equipment and he told me how to work up a safe load. That is long past and I got out of reloading for many years completely forgetting that load. I now have been reloading many years in many calibers but that Luger stumped me. I am loading for that same Luger I bought as a teenager (age 16)(with Mom's help) and this was my first handgun. (Mom could out shoot me with it)

More updates. Another trip to the range. My previous load of 4.1 of Bullseye did short stroke the toggle. I had three loads to try today 4.3-4.5 -4.7 of Bullseye. .86 grain bullet OAL of 1.118 +/- matching the factory Fiocchi OAL. Funny thing, the longer OAL bullet loaded with 4.1 did try to work the toggle. Today the shorter seated bullet matching factory OAL at 4.3 grains would not work the toggle at all. Surprise--when I went to the 4.5 load the gun worked perfectly as did the load of 4.7. Comparing the factory load to the 4.7, the 4.7 felt a bit stronger recoil wise and the 4.5 close behind the factory load in felt recoil. I will try 4.6 next and check all carefully for signs of excessive pressure. Again I thank all that have helped me here and am quite happy that I finally seem to have a working safe load.
(Actually the OAL was decreased to match factory OAL. Sorry for any confusion)

rhuff · 08-19-2014, 05:33 PM

So glad to hear that you have found a functioning load for your Luger. As has been stated so many times, each Luger is an individual, and it is different from others. As handloaders, we have to experiment with brass, primers, powders, bullets, OALs to find the correct combination we seek. A certain amount of pride is experienced once a base combo is found, and a smile seems to form on one's face. You now can work in both directions and with other components to see what works the best for you. This is the art of handloading to me.

When a slower powder becomes available to your area, you might just want to give it a try. I check daily for some 8# bottles of Unique, but nothing yet.

cliffdropover1 · 08-20-2014, 05:28 PM

Back from the range again. The 4.6 works well with no signs of excessive pressure. So 4.5-4.6 is my load for this old Luger. I will start working up a load for .93 lead as soon as they arrive.

rhuff · 08-20-2014, 08:08 PM

I usually use the softest load that will function 100%. These "old girls" are near/over the 100 year old range, and I try not to break any parts. I have had to replace a couple of extractors and a firing pin spring guide over the years. Are you using a fluted firing pin or the old solid pin?? If you are not using a later model fluted one, I will recommend one to you. You can purchase the aftermarket ones for cheap, and the originals for more money. They will channel the chamber pressure safely, in case you experience a pierced primer, and not destroy the breechblock.

cliffdropover1 · 08-20-2014, 11:29 PM

I did find a loading for 4.5 grains of Bullseye with an .85 grain jacketed bullet. This was the max load. These newer manuals usually show lighter loadings then the older manuals. As far as the firing pin/striker, I haven't looked at in a long time and don't know what a "fluted" one should look like. When I replaced one in a friend's gun the new one (not original) looked the same as mine. I will probably try some of the .93 grain lead bullets in my gun and have found a loading of 4.2 grains of Bullseye for this bullet. (new Lyman manual) I probably will only load a few and then put the gun away as it has a great deal of sentimental value for me. The factory .93 grain Fiocchi are quite stout, but Lugers don't work with light loads.

08-11-2014, 09:59 AM	#42
K.Wilhelm User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South Central Colorado Posts: 215 Thanks: 45 Thanked 109 Times in 66 Posts	I found the same recommended starting charge for HP-38, but found it didn't lock the slide back on empty. So I upped the charge a little at a time until slide lock back happened. KW __________________ NRA Endowment Life member Proud veteran of the Naval Security Group

08-14-2014, 07:54 PM	#49
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 908 Thanks: 42 Thanked 469 Times in 197 Posts	You can't find fiocchi bullets ? I use them , work nicely Attached Thumbnails __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

08-18-2014, 12:26 AM	#54
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 908 Thanks: 42 Thanked 469 Times in 197 Posts	I ask to a german seller where I buy my bullets : they don't send in USA , sorry http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5048041 __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

08-18-2014, 08:20 PM	#55
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	I worked these loads up several years ago, they functioned fine in my Lugers. Sorry nothing in the requested powders, as stated by others, fast powders like Bullseye, Red Dot & WW231/HP38 did not function well in my tests. The slower powders worked best;, Unique, Blue Dot, Green Dot ,HS-7, IMR SR4756. Attached Thumbnails __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

08-11-2014, 09:35 AM	#41
cliffdropover1 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 65 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	Just found that the Hodgdon website shows a load using W231. It is for a 93 grain FMJ bullet. Maximum load at 4.2 grains. Now at least I have somewhat of a starting point with W231.

08-12-2014, 07:07 PM	#43
cliffdropover1 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 65 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	Update--I loaded some of the 100 grain round nose flat point bullets. I started at 3.0 grains of W231. Then 3.2--3.4--3.8--4.0--4.2. The toggle would not work with 3.2--3.4, but started to work with 3.8. 4.2 worked well. BUT the bullets were key holing at 7 yards as the bullets rear does measure .309, but the rest of the bullet then abruptly tapers to .306. I am going back to the few .90 grain hollow points I have and will post those results soon.

08-13-2014, 04:44 PM	#45
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	Your load with the 100gr LRNFP bullets may not be stabilizing the bullet, and allowing it to tumble.

08-13-2014, 09:40 PM	#46
cliffdropover1 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 65 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	Update number two--basically my reloads suck. The Luger (as I stated earlier) was not designed to shoot hollow points so they like to hang up on the feed ramp. Also, comparing these to factory ammo, my loads are too light. I was lucky to hear from Western Bullet today and hope to get some RNL at .93 grains. When I do, I will try to develop a proper load for my gun.. It does shoot great with factory loads.

08-14-2014, 09:36 PM	#50
cliffdropover1 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 65 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	Sorry to disagree, but I believe that these particular hollow point bullets are not well liked by my Luger. (Or my friend's Luger) They are Hornady XTP. This has a flat point jacketed hollow point. I loaded them to 1.166 OAL when the manuals say 1.175 is max. for OAL. I have some .86 grain bullets coming from Midway that measure .308 and some .93 grain from Western that measure .309. I am looking forward to finally having the correct bullet to load and am sure I will be successful here. And finally to rhuf--how about sharing your load data--powder type and amount of grains for those bullets you get from Western? It sure might make my life a bit easier. Thanks to all for the help.

08-17-2014, 09:51 PM	#53
cliffdropover1 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 65 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	I went to the range today with .86 grain bullets loaded at 3.8 and 4.1 of Bullseye. OAL was 1.158 +/- . Since I don't have a chronograph, I go by feel. Recoil was much less than Fiocchi factory ammo. They would not feed properly as they short stroked. I am going to increase the OAL to match the Fiocchi bullet and gradually increase the powder. I will keep you posted. Also I went to a gun show yesterday and they had a great deal of the Fiocchi ammo, so I was able to get ammo that does work great in my Luger.

08-19-2014, 05:33 PM	#57
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	So glad to hear that you have found a functioning load for your Luger. As has been stated so many times, each Luger is an individual, and it is different from others. As handloaders, we have to experiment with brass, primers, powders, bullets, OALs to find the correct combination we seek. A certain amount of pride is experienced once a base combo is found, and a smile seems to form on one's face. You now can work in both directions and with other components to see what works the best for you. This is the art of handloading to me. When a slower powder becomes available to your area, you might just want to give it a try. I check daily for some 8# bottles of Unique, but nothing yet.

08-20-2014, 05:28 PM	#58
cliffdropover1 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 65 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	Back from the range again. The 4.6 works well with no signs of excessive pressure. So 4.5-4.6 is my load for this old Luger. I will start working up a load for .93 lead as soon as they arrive.

08-20-2014, 08:08 PM	#59
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,291 Thanks: 2,709 Thanked 972 Times in 717 Posts	I usually use the softest load that will function 100%. These "old girls" are near/over the 100 year old range, and I try not to break any parts. I have had to replace a couple of extractors and a firing pin spring guide over the years. Are you using a fluted firing pin or the old solid pin?? If you are not using a later model fluted one, I will recommend one to you. You can purchase the aftermarket ones for cheap, and the originals for more money. They will channel the chamber pressure safely, in case you experience a pierced primer, and not destroy the breechblock.

08-20-2014, 11:29 PM	#60
cliffdropover1 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 65 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	I did find a loading for 4.5 grains of Bullseye with an .85 grain jacketed bullet. This was the max load. These newer manuals usually show lighter loadings then the older manuals. As far as the firing pin/striker, I haven't looked at in a long time and don't know what a "fluted" one should look like. When I replaced one in a friend's gun the new one (not original) looked the same as mine. I will probably try some of the .93 grain lead bullets in my gun and have found a loading of 4.2 grains of Bullseye for this bullet. (new Lyman manual) I probably will only load a few and then put the gun away as it has a great deal of sentimental value for me. The factory .93 grain Fiocchi are quite stout, but Lugers don't work with light loads.