Assistance Please! - Page 3

former173rd · 07-22-2017, 04:21 AM

I'll double check that...thanks.

kurusu · 07-22-2017, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tharpo

Gun serial number 6000q, inside sideplate #60. Does not fit the "rule" but there is no reason to think that the sideplate is not original. I think Mauser did this numbering for their own purposes and not for us collectors.

I tend to agree. My byf 41 also has the 2 first digits of the serial number inside the sideplate.

DonVoigt · 07-22-2017, 09:38 AM

Recently in another thread, the topic of Mauser "inside" side plate numbers was discussed.

There are many examples of the side plate having the "same" first two digits of the serial number, and as many or more with the first two (+1).

I agree with Tharpo, Mauser did this according to their own "rule", not ours. I totally agree that this is highly likely to be the original side plate. JMHO.

Using the frist two digits "+1" never made sense to me, and still does not- though I could conjure up a reason if I thought long enough.

Eugen · 07-22-2017, 10:30 AM

Hmmm...attenpting to decifer the reasoning behind their numbering system is causing my head to hurt.

mrerick · 07-22-2017, 11:23 AM

Mauser examples are seen with the inside number of the side plate the first digits themselves and the first digits plus 1. Both are known to occur.

This numbering related to the manufacturing processes inside the Mauser plant.

I would not be concerned with finding "60" or "61" inside this pistol's side plate.

former173rd · 07-22-2017, 11:45 AM

Hope everyone has a great weekend, and I really appreciate the input from you one other concern is the color of the small parts . I have heard that it is wrong. My research indicates they are Ok, but another source says otherwise. Have I got a "dud"?

Sergio Natali · 07-22-2017, 11:49 AM

I've been following this thread right from the start, and it was great to see the old members trying to help a newbee; anyway back to the point, first I wanted to welcome you to our forum, and second... I wanted to suggest you to think twice before you sell it, it's a nice luger, and perhaps if you'll keep it would be a good way to start your own collection.

Regards.

tharpo · 07-22-2017, 12:18 PM

The color of the small parts are correct for a 41 byf.
Is the "s" shaped link under the rear of the toggles blued or in the white? It is normally in the white.

Ron Wood · 07-22-2017, 12:25 PM

I do not find any fault in legitimate questioning of obvious discrepancies of a given Luger. However, I think this really excellent example is perilously close to a "death by a thousand cuts". Come on guys, I admit that I am in no way an expert on these WWII vintage Lugers, but common sense would seem to rule that this exemplary piece is legitimate and does not deserve to be nitpicked to death.
Ron

former173rd · 07-22-2017, 01:34 PM

Thats encouraging ...tharpo, since my eyes aren't the best, so here are couple of photo....you can tell better than me!
Again, I appreciate all of the patience and education from the forum.

former173rd · 07-22-2017, 01:39 PM

I also relooked the inside of the sideplate for the numbers. Well, first they are hard to read, but because of the SN, the 2 digits could be 60... or 00..looks like machining marks over part of the numbers.

kurusu · 07-22-2017, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by former173rd

Hope everyone has a great weekend, and I really appreciate the input from you one other concern is the color of the small parts . I have heard that it is wrong. My research indicates they are Ok, but another source says otherwise. Have I got a "dud"?

The colour of the small on your pistol is consistent with it's production year.

former173rd · 07-22-2017, 01:45 PM

Thought I'd do the bolt face while its apart. Can't see any carbon residue!

Sonofeugene · 07-22-2017, 03:16 PM

Don't assume a gun smith will know how to take it apart and put it back together. If they've not worked on Lugers, find someone that has experience. It's not difficult but ther are things that can go wrong if you don't know what you're doing. Like breaking off that bit of the left grip just behind the safety. Or losing the tiny spring for the take down toggle.

DonVoigt · 07-22-2017, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by former173rd

Thought I'd do the bolt face while its apart. Can't see any carbon residue!

I would not expect to see any carbon residue, and brass transfer only if shot a lot.

Yours does not look to have been fired much at all.

kurusu · 07-22-2017, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by former173rd

Thought I'd do the bolt face while its apart. Can't see any carbon residue!

If you really want to have an assessment of the use your pistol saw. Get us some pictures (preferably better than my hasty ones

) of the same areas I am showing.

Note. These pictures are from my byf that has been used in competition for the last 20 years. So, that is what heavily used looks like.

Click image for larger version

Name: DSC00061.jpg
Views: 66
Size: 98.7 KB
ID: 67421

Click image for larger version

Name: DSC00062.jpg
Views: 65
Size: 99.2 KB
ID: 67422

Click image for larger version

Name: DSC00063.jpg
Views: 68
Size: 106.2 KB
ID: 67423

former173rd · 07-22-2017, 10:36 PM

Thanks Kurusu, I'll get them out tomorrow...maybe try to use my camera vs iphone. Guess I need to put together an album for the sale listing..
I hope I never have to go through this again. Might as well be trying to sell a spacecraft!

DavidJayUden · 07-23-2017, 12:07 AM

I think you are being bogged down in minutia. Just write the ad, mention this thread, then add a couple of general photos. It's not all that big of a deal, PM me if you need help.
dju

former173rd · 07-23-2017, 04:09 AM

Thanks David, I just may take you up on that.

former173rd · 07-25-2017, 01:51 PM

Listed for sale here and GB. Thanks to everyone for your time, wisdom, and assistance. The knowledge base here is amazing!.
John

07-22-2017, 09:38 AM	#43
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Recently in another thread, the topic of Mauser "inside" side plate numbers was discussed. There are many examples of the side plate having the "same" first two digits of the serial number, and as many or more with the first two (+1). I agree with Tharpo, Mauser did this according to their own "rule", not ours. I totally agree that this is highly likely to be the original side plate. JMHO. Using the frist two digits "+1" never made sense to me, and still does not- though I could conjure up a reason if I thought long enough. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

07-22-2017, 10:30 AM	#44
Eugen User Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Newburgh,IN Posts: 790 Thanks: 394 Thanked 631 Times in 334 Posts	Hmmm...attenpting to decifer the reasoning behind their numbering system is causing my head to hurt. __________________ “God created war so that Americans would learn geography.” ― Mark Twain

07-22-2017, 11:23 AM	#45
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Mauser examples are seen with the inside number of the side plate the first digits themselves and the first digits plus 1. Both are known to occur. This numbering related to the manufacturing processes inside the Mauser plant. I would not be concerned with finding "60" or "61" inside this pistol's side plate. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

07-22-2017, 11:49 AM	#47
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I've been following this thread right from the start, and it was great to see the old members trying to help a newbee; anyway back to the point, first I wanted to welcome you to our forum, and second... I wanted to suggest you to think twice before you sell it, it's a nice luger, and perhaps if you'll keep it would be a good way to start your own collection. Regards. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

07-22-2017, 12:25 PM	#49
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	I do not find any fault in legitimate questioning of obvious discrepancies of a given Luger. However, I think this really excellent example is perilously close to a "death by a thousand cuts". Come on guys, I admit that I am in no way an expert on these WWII vintage Lugers, but common sense would seem to rule that this exemplary piece is legitimate and does not deserve to be nitpicked to death. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-22-2017, 04:21 AM	#41
former173rd User Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 27 Thanks: 15 Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts	I'll double check that...thanks.

07-22-2017, 11:45 AM	#46
former173rd User Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 27 Thanks: 15 Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts	Hope everyone has a great weekend, and I really appreciate the input from you one other concern is the color of the small parts . I have heard that it is wrong. My research indicates they are Ok, but another source says otherwise. Have I got a "dud"?

07-22-2017, 12:18 PM	#48
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 116 Thanked 382 Times in 157 Posts	The color of the small parts are correct for a 41 byf. Is the "s" shaped link under the rear of the toggles blued or in the white? It is normally in the white.

07-22-2017, 01:34 PM	#50
former173rd User Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 27 Thanks: 15 Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts	Thats encouraging ...tharpo, since my eyes aren't the best, so here are couple of photo....you can tell better than me! Again, I appreciate all of the patience and education from the forum. Attached Thumbnails

07-22-2017, 01:39 PM	#51
former173rd User Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 27 Thanks: 15 Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts	I also relooked the inside of the sideplate for the numbers. Well, first they are hard to read, but because of the SN, the 2 digits could be 60... or 00..looks like machining marks over part of the numbers. Last edited by former173rd; 07-22-2017 at 01:40 PM. Reason: more info

07-22-2017, 01:45 PM	#53
former173rd User Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 27 Thanks: 15 Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts	Thought I'd do the bolt face while its apart. Can't see any carbon residue! Attached Thumbnails

07-22-2017, 03:16 PM	#54
Sonofeugene User Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 157 Thanks: 1 Thanked 118 Times in 64 Posts	Don't assume a gun smith will know how to take it apart and put it back together. If they've not worked on Lugers, find someone that has experience. It's not difficult but ther are things that can go wrong if you don't know what you're doing. Like breaking off that bit of the left grip just behind the safety. Or losing the tiny spring for the take down toggle.

07-22-2017, 10:36 PM	#57
former173rd User Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 27 Thanks: 15 Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks Kurusu, I'll get them out tomorrow...maybe try to use my camera vs iphone. Guess I need to put together an album for the sale listing.. I hope I never have to go through this again. Might as well be trying to sell a spacecraft!

07-23-2017, 12:07 AM	#58
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I think you are being bogged down in minutia. Just write the ad, mention this thread, then add a couple of general photos. It's not all that big of a deal, PM me if you need help. dju

07-23-2017, 04:09 AM	#59
former173rd User Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 27 Thanks: 15 Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks David, I just may take you up on that.

07-25-2017, 01:51 PM	#60
former173rd User Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 27 Thanks: 15 Thanked 12 Times in 3 Posts	Listed for sale here and GB. Thanks to everyone for your time, wisdom, and assistance. The knowledge base here is amazing!. John