John McCain's VP Choice!

[LugerVern]

Hans

We all know politics can be very emotional; However insulting a countryâ??s war hero on a forum populated with an abundance of veterans is very unwise.

Most of the members are pretty darn smart, if you throw BS around they will call you on it, no doubt about it.

If you would like to present an opposing view, thatâ??s cool, but do so with facts and be respectful of our men and women in the service both past and present.

Vern
(Vietnam Vet)

[davidkachel]

I have to agree. There is a great distinction between John McCain's military service, something it is silly to attempt to discredit, and his political life. To claim McCain does not deserve credit for his military service is simply not worth discussing. He earned his stature in that arena and no one can take it away from him.
But as a politician and statesman, he falls seriously short.
Let's please try to keep the two separate.

[tenbears]

Tobruk42;
Have you ever served in the military? Your remarks suggest not. I have been waiting for a long time for a Vietnam Vet to become the President of the USA. Hopefully the wait will soon be over.
As Always

[Tobruk42]

Hmm...I'm amazed at how completely off the mark some of you are about what I said. First of all I am ABSOLUTELY as conservative as you are ...if not more so. In addition I am by heritage, sentiment, and political orientation 1000% US military. In fact we have a photo here of JM's grandfather pinning the Air Medal on my father (USS ESSEX 1945) after the Okinawa campaign. But the current McCain is Nothing like his forebearers. Recall that I started my post by saying that I have followed his career from nearly day one. So I am not just slinging mud for the sake of tossing a few grenades at John McCain ok? I am as far to the right of Liberal ,Communist or Socialist as day is removed from night. So save your grenades for someone else. I know a turkey when I see one and this guy is it in spades. What seems clear to me is that most of you have not bothered to take one small step toward looking into McCains background. Here is a good place to start ...and to start thinking: Can any of you hot heads tell me what the so called McCain Bill of the 1990's was all about? Have you ever even heard of it? Do you know anything at all about the struggle of the families of the MIA/POWS from Vietnam? The fight they have waged to establish the fate of their veterans unaccounted for over there all these years? I doubt it. If you do know any of them ask them how they feel about the McCain Bill. A bill passed to seal forever John McCain's POW records and (unbelieveably) the records of all other MIAs and POWs from that conflict. Just ask them how they feel about that knife in the back compliments of Sen McCain which has effectively killed any means of them getting any kind of resolution as to the fate of their loved ones. I dare you to dig into it before you ever dare open your mouth to me about McCain and veterans. No one single member of Congress has ever done anything so low. And then start to think....why did he do it? Why was sealing the records necessary? Forever? Begin to take it up with this guy (http://mjwilsonblog.blogspot.com/200...ow-record.html) which is just one example. Then go find out why his nickname was Songbird. Then tell me why he greeted his former jailer with a big hug last year when they met. Is that how the world works? The former torture victim and former jail boss are big buds? That simply suspends all reason. My 3rd cousin Sgt. F. Brincefield was forced to surrender on Bataan, survived the Death March, the hell ship passage , and then the entire rest of the war in Hoten Prison under the worst of the Japanese. Believe me he would damn well never hug any of his former jailers. People who have been through genuine hell like that don't kiss and make up. Contact former Congressman Bob Dornan about JM. That should be an eye opener as well. Then begin to look into how McCain callously dumped his first wife after she was nearly killed in a car wreck and need real long term care. It is dispicable to even read about it ....but go do it before you fire another shot.
But....lets suppose I am completely wrong about his early career. What more do you need to think about as true patriots than just the last five or so? Do you know what the McCain Fiengold bill did to you? Do you know about the McCain Liberman bill? Werte you one of the many thousands last year who rose up to fight the McCain Kennedy amisty bill? I 'm willing to bet you didn't lift a finger help save this republic during that battle. I poured hours into that battle and I'm glad I did. I doubt any of you did anything besides bitch. So don't presume to tell me much of anything about McCain. I 've done the homework.
Ed Tinker: I'll say this with regard to your call for an apology. I'm not offering one. What John McCain did against the Vietnam Veterns MIAS/POWS is beyond the pale. It was the act of a self serving scum who has cut off forever their best chance. It was a deliberate act designed to hide the truth of his own record. Nothing I can do if you don't want to find out about it. I stand by my opinion of him and the facts bear me out. He even admits he made propaganda tapes for North Vietnam in a US News & World Report (5-14-1973). No war hero in my book....ever.

[Ron Wood]

Hans,
You have a lot of hate going there, and to you it probably seems justified. You are certainly are entitled to your opinion. But it is kind of like Boy George walking into a Biker bar and expecting a warm reception...you probably won't find many sympathetic ears here.

[Tobruk42]

Hate? Naw, just surprise. As I've said, just take a few steps into researching JM and realize who he is. For example, he was seriously considering switching sides to the Democrats at few years ago. His main pal in the Senate is Ted Kennedy. He was part of the Gang of 14 organized to block appointment of F

[Tobruk42]

ederal judges. But worst of all was the amnisty for illegals legislation last year. That was the topper. Then post 911 we can't fully interrogate suspects. The McCain Fiengold limit on free speech...and on and on. Thats just the recent stuff of the last few years. So he is a loser for too many reasons ...but Palin is a breath of fresh air and now an instant star. She has integrity and now the full weight of media attention. And I'm hoping she can counter some of the moves McCain is likely to make ...like granting amnisty to illegals. I can see her really opposing that. JM might find it hard to push past her influence. If not, everybody is going to end up disappointed in how things go under a McCain administration. There will be very little difference when it all pans out than the guaranteed disaster from Obama.

[Edward Tinker]

Not all the members of the forum are " as far to the right of Liberal ,Communist or Socialist as day is removed from night." Some of us are a bit more liberal. to a far right wing conservative that is; to a liberal democrat I am probably pretty conservative.

Then post 911 we can't fully interrogate suspects. The McCain Fiengold limit on free speech...

Do some research, if this was you or your family, as an American, would you want to be treated this way?


And sport, I will talk to John Sabato and John Dunkle on whether you stay on the forum.


I wasn't kidding, nor do I threaten "banning" someone unless they really T me off.

ADMIN

[davidkachel]

Originally posted by Tobruk42
Hate? Naw, just surprise. As I've said, just take a few steps into researching JM and realize who he is. For example, he was seriously considering switching sides to the Democrats at few years ago. His main pal in the Senate is Ted Kennedy. He was part of the Gang of 14 organized to block appointment of F

Tobruk42,

You are missing the point. The fact that McCain is a Democrat in conservative clothing is not really in dispute BUT, that does not nullify his military service.

He DID serve in the military and he DID spend several years being tortured in a POW camp. Period! Whether or not you believe you have found evidence he was wearing women's underwear, worshipping the devil and sleeping with farm animals during that time is totally irrelevant. His military service is a fact and ought to be respected.

When you attempted to take McCain's military service away from him you offended every man here who has served in the military; especially those who served in Viet Nam and were less than warmly received by their countrymen when they returned from the war.

Now, if McCain sponsored legislation that abandons still missing Gis and POWs and offends their families, fine. That may be legitimate reason to hate his guts. But that is the politician JM, not the soldier JM. His current possibly despicable behavior does not nullify his past service. Do you see why members here might be offended and expect you to apologize?

[Tobruk42]

As an American running for office I wouldn't have my records sealed...period/end. It's real significant that he did that. Then to seal everyone else's involved is really something...particularly when MIAs are no doubt still out there or could have been at the time based on credible evidence. One guy with an agenda with one stroke of the pen shuts down everything forever...and you think this guy is a hero? Seems like you haven't really bothered to look into this MIA situation. So until you do don't fly off the handle. There is a lot to it and you appear uninformed .
As for the consultation about banning my account, it's your vehicle. If you do it's a poor reflection on you. I didn't set out to stir the world up in the sense that an agitator strolls in and tosses a bomb. But when the flame started then I brought up some points that ought to be considered IF you want to understand what this guy is all about. It's not pretty but I didn't set out to slap your pet. He is what he is ...and it's too bad. If he gets elected lots of stuff will become a lot plainer to you ...and the only silver lining will be Palin (hopefully). So no apologies. Do some homework instead of just having a fit. I'd rather see him in office than Obama now that Palin has come onboard...but I don't have any illusions about Washington and power either.

[davidkachel]

I give up. It is pointless to continue a discussion with someone who sticks his fingers in his ears and shouts "la-la-la" whenever someone tries to explain something to him.

[Ron Smith]

It sounds like the "Swift Boat" has come about, and is now steaming the other way.

I would like to know why McCain had POW/MIA records sealed?

[LugerVern]

quote: " the guaranteed disaster from Obama."

This election is about the future of the USA and the world more than any other election in our life times. What happens this Nov. is unbelievably important, the stark reality of this has not sunk into the minds of most people. We are so caught up in what has transpired over the last 8 years we can not see the future as it will be like should McCain & Palin loose this election.

Is the USA so desperate for change that we are willing to throw our freedom, our heritage, our values away and start down another path? I really hope not and the world better hope that doesn't happen too. Should Obama win this election the resultant loss of freedom to its people will cause the USA to become self obsessed and introverted, in all likely hood there will be internal fighting as people try to retain the freedoms they once knew.

Much of the world thinks of the USA badly, lets face it, we are a big pain in the butt at times, we stick our noses into other peoples business. We are much like the old lady next door who constantly looks out her window to see what is going on and cry's foul play at the first sign of trouble. At times you just hate her, however no other country in the world has such big open hearts and a desire to see the world a peaceful place. We are the place you come to for help and protection, we are the place you send your children to play, learn and work and even today as messed up as we are, we are the place many come to to live.

We are the people who willingly fight and die so that others can have a better way of life and enjoy freedom.

A vote for Obama, will change all of this and the world will change with it.

I ask not only the people of this forum and the USA but also the people of the world are you sure you want the old lady to go away, or is it simply that you love to hate her in a nice way and wish her no harm.

Be careful what you ask for in Nov. "Vote for McCain and Palin"

Vern

[davidkachel]

LugerVern,

We have I think, an unfortunate choice between a democrat who will absolutely sell us all down the river and a democrat in republican clothing who will almost certainly sell us all down the river.

McCain has already proven that he will not support gun rights; worse, he will sponsor legislation to take them away. I fear the discovery of all the other rights he won't support. This election is sort of like playing russian roulette with all chambers loaded. Part of me hopes for a massive republican loss that will force the party to throw out all the neocons and return to true republican principles. But I won't hold my breath.

[LugerVern]

quote: "We have I think, an unfortunate choice between a democrat who will absolutely sell us all down the river and a democrat in republican clothing who will almost certainly sell us all down the river."

I can not argue with this statement, its like voting between hope and no hope at all---I will go for hope everytime

Vern

[davidkachel]

Originally posted by LugerVern
[BI can not argue with this statement, its like voting between hope and no hope at all---I will go for hope everytime

Vern [/B]

Vern,

Didn't we get really screwed once by some guy from 'Hope'? <grin>

[Mike B]

Let's talk about Lugers

Mike

[Edward Tinker]

Originally posted by Mike B
Let's talk about Lugers

Mike

I agree, i initially closed this thread this AM, but folks get excited about me doing so....

[Frank]

Hi Mike,

LET'S TALK ABOUT LUGERS!!!!!

[LugerVern]

I agree--lets talk guns, who started this thread anyway?