WWI Artillery Luger Leather SOFT SHELL Holster commercial ?

CorporalGungee · 07-11-2013, 03:42 AM

Hi,
I just picked up this holster and can't find out any information on it , and would appreciate any info . I think it's commercial ? It seems to have had some type of disc or pin on it too at some time . it looks like the stiching is all done crocked , probably done on by hand on a sewing machine ?

I just noticed something else a little strange , it's on the buckle / The roller tube ( a roll pin type with a seam ) has a notch in the center to keep the latch pin in place and centered . If someone knows about when this type of pattern came out , it could help date what era the holster is from . The buckle is about 20% smaller than a normal buckle that is usually found on a Luger holster .

The belt loops are of the same type of leather as the BACK with the texture / pattern / print , BUT that is on the INSIDE and can't be seen in the pictures . So I'd have to think that they are original to the holster .
I added a couple new pictures of the belt loops so that one can see that the textured surface is turned towards the inside ( backwards in my opinion )

I looked at the pull up knot on the holster and it is different ; it's actually doubled over and then pulled through the very end that has a slit and another slit so that it forms TWO bumps with the strap going through the middle . it looks kind of like a letter "Y" from the side and each side at the top being doubled over . The leather is very thin for being used in a holster .
I was not able to post a picture of the knot as I reached max limit .

I do think that the stitching is common dress-markers thread used in an regular clothing type sewing machine . Also I think that you are correct in that it was assembled and sewn by a novice on a taylors / home style sewing machine . However the cutting of the leather , maybe from a pattern ? ; seems to be just fine and not irregular at all ( not like it was cut with a pair of succors )

The corduroy type leather is very thin being used in it's construction and the print of it's pattern reminds me of Elephant Skin .

ithacaartist · 07-18-2013, 12:18 PM

I first looked at the photos; then discovered you mention the crooked stitching in your description. My money's on Jerry Burney, or maybe Bill Lyons as possible sources for real info on this. It impresses me with its crude workmanship. My notion is that it is a one-off, maybe even limited production, by an individual or small shop that had little Q.C. I don't think you'd see anything as bad as this produced/offered in any "official" sense, commercially or otherwise.

lugerholsterrepair · 07-18-2013, 12:29 PM

David is on the mark here..Not good enough to be commercial per se. One thing of note however..the textured leather. Could be it was made from a salvaged suitcase or some other leather item. Looks old though don't it?

wlyon · 07-19-2013, 01:13 AM

Agree with David and Jerry. An unknown commercial type holster. I would assume made up in a leather shop. The belt loops are fairly new and machine stitched. The ribbed leather is similar to an unknown holster in original version Gortz and Sturgess Volume 3 page 1348. Bill

lugerholsterrepair · 07-19-2013, 12:46 PM

The ribbed leather is similar to an unknown holster in original version Gortz and Sturgess Volume 3 page 1348. Bill

Bill..Yes..This corduroy type leather is seen on some very early Artillery holsters. It was also used on many types of leather goods..map cases, suitcases and the like. Could be this was made from something like that.
I talked with Paul last night and he brought to my attention the indentation in the middle of the roller on the buckle. I can now see what he was saying looking at the photo's. I have never seen this on a German Military buckle? He also says it is smaller than a Luger holster buckle.
The stitching is much too small to be linen so it was either made with a cotton dressmaker thread or a more modern nylon
A couple of other things I just noticed looking at details..The pull-up strap knot is simply rolled up. Not an actual German tied knot. Also the slot for this strap in the front body of the holster appears to be just a slit..not the usual oval cutout. This indicates to me that a novice was trying to replicate but was not overly knowledgeable or skilled.

wlyon · 07-19-2013, 09:20 PM

Looking at this again I think the belt loops are probably original. All the stitching looks very amateur. But no question it is old. And interesting. Bill

07-11-2013, 03:42 AM	#1
CorporalGungee User Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 33 Thanks: 12 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	WWI Artillery Luger Leather SOFT SHELL Holster commercial ? Hi, I just picked up this holster and can't find out any information on it , and would appreciate any info . I think it's commercial ? It seems to have had some type of disc or pin on it too at some time . it looks like the stiching is all done crocked , probably done on by hand on a sewing machine ? I just noticed something else a little strange , it's on the buckle / The roller tube ( a roll pin type with a seam ) has a notch in the center to keep the latch pin in place and centered . If someone knows about when this type of pattern came out , it could help date what era the holster is from . The buckle is about 20% smaller than a normal buckle that is usually found on a Luger holster . The belt loops are of the same type of leather as the BACK with the texture / pattern / print , BUT that is on the INSIDE and can't be seen in the pictures . So I'd have to think that they are original to the holster . I added a couple new pictures of the belt loops so that one can see that the textured surface is turned towards the inside ( backwards in my opinion ) I looked at the pull up knot on the holster and it is different ; it's actually doubled over and then pulled through the very end that has a slit and another slit so that it forms TWO bumps with the strap going through the middle . it looks kind of like a letter "Y" from the side and each side at the top being doubled over . The leather is very thin for being used in a holster . I was not able to post a picture of the knot as I reached max limit . I do think that the stitching is common dress-markers thread used in an regular clothing type sewing machine . Also I think that you are correct in that it was assembled and sewn by a novice on a taylors / home style sewing machine . However the cutting of the leather , maybe from a pattern ? ; seems to be just fine and not irregular at all ( not like it was cut with a pair of succors ) The corduroy type leather is very thin being used in it's construction and the print of it's pattern reminds me of Elephant Skin . Attached Thumbnails Last edited by CorporalGungee; 07-19-2013 at 08:17 PM. Reason: new info

07-18-2013, 12:18 PM	#2
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	I first looked at the photos; then discovered you mention the crooked stitching in your description. My money's on Jerry Burney, or maybe Bill Lyons as possible sources for real info on this. It impresses me with its crude workmanship. My notion is that it is a one-off, maybe even limited production, by an individual or small shop that had little Q.C. I don't think you'd see anything as bad as this produced/offered in any "official" sense, commercially or otherwise. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

07-18-2013, 12:29 PM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	David is on the mark here..Not good enough to be commercial per se. One thing of note however..the textured leather. Could be it was made from a salvaged suitcase or some other leather item. Looks old though don't it? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-19-2013, 01:13 AM	#4
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,636 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,559 Times in 955 Posts	Agree with David and Jerry. An unknown commercial type holster. I would assume made up in a leather shop. The belt loops are fairly new and machine stitched. The ribbed leather is similar to an unknown holster in original version Gortz and Sturgess Volume 3 page 1348. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

07-19-2013, 12:46 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	The ribbed leather is similar to an unknown holster in original version Gortz and Sturgess Volume 3 page 1348. Bill Bill..Yes..This corduroy type leather is seen on some very early Artillery holsters. It was also used on many types of leather goods..map cases, suitcases and the like. Could be this was made from something like that. I talked with Paul last night and he brought to my attention the indentation in the middle of the roller on the buckle. I can now see what he was saying looking at the photo's. I have never seen this on a German Military buckle? He also says it is smaller than a Luger holster buckle. The stitching is much too small to be linen so it was either made with a cotton dressmaker thread or a more modern nylon A couple of other things I just noticed looking at details..The pull-up strap knot is simply rolled up. Not an actual German tied knot. Also the slot for this strap in the front body of the holster appears to be just a slit..not the usual oval cutout. This indicates to me that a novice was trying to replicate but was not overly knowledgeable or skilled. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-19-2013, 09:20 PM	#6
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,636 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,559 Times in 955 Posts	Looking at this again I think the belt loops are probably original. All the stitching looks very amateur. But no question it is old. And interesting. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon