Wooden Artillery Stock

saab-bob · 09-11-2013, 07:33 PM

Gents

I noticed a Artillery Luger wooden holster shoulder stock up for bid on this weekends RIA sale.
Haven't seen one since these old E-bay auctions.
If these where really made by DWM or Erfurt,this one would have be a real one.

I am sure will bid up above my budget!

Bob
http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/59/lid/1400

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saab-bob · 09-14-2013, 03:59 PM

Wow!
Well,somebody thought that stock was real.
It just sold for $13,000 + fees on the RIA action.

Wonder who was the lucky winner?

Bob

cirelaw · 09-14-2013, 04:21 PM

Both appear to have been removed!

Edward Tinker · 09-14-2013, 09:00 PM

I have seen pictures and one at a local auction I wanted to buy, but it went way above my pocketbook

BTW, I moved this to its own thread.

Ed

saab-bob · 09-14-2013, 09:02 PM

Cirelaw
Just tried my link,it still works.
Take care!
Bob

cirelaw · 09-14-2013, 09:04 PM

We aim to please!~~~Eric

Thosbi · 07-03-2014, 06:43 PM

Pictures of my wooden holster set.

Regards from germany
Thosbi

lugerholsterrepair · 07-04-2014, 12:05 AM

Thosbi, Well..That is just about the coolest thing EVER! The stock looks like the recent stocks made by a fellow in Germany..Did you have the leather made? It's almost good enough to pass for original. NICE Tell us more and welcome to the Forum!

skeeter4206 · 07-04-2014, 03:55 AM

Wow indeed! That is a really nice setup. I'm curious about artilleries and that's the first time I have seen one set up that way, with the wooden portion inside the leather holster. Did they issue setups like the one Thosbi shows here. I would imagine if they did issue a complete setup like this to someone in the military at that time. Or is this a commercial style setup someone could purchase if these desired back then. Either way, that is really nice. Thanks for the photos Thosbi.

Thosbi · 07-04-2014, 05:05 AM

@ skeeter4206

For comparison.
Here is the original and more information about:
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/3073-358/
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/3073a-358/

@ lugerholsterrepair

Yes, the stock comes from Mr. Basnakowski.
( The same source as that of Harry )
The leather was made by Mr. Axel Zimmermann
http://www.ledermanufaktur-zimmerman...dex%20eng.html

Both are perfect work.

Regards
Thosbi

Lugerdoc · 07-04-2014, 05:26 PM

Some of these repro "broom type" LPO8 stocks were made in Poland about 20 years ago and a few were imported into the USA by Collectors Armory and sold for around $600 each. TH

lugerholsterrepair · 07-04-2014, 10:10 PM

Thosbi..Both are perfect work. Yes! I can vouch for the stock..I had one delivered here. I got to inspect it for a day or two. Mr. Basnakowski is a master stock maker..the wood and metal are top notch. The leather on it is very well done too! Could you post a picture of the backside? I would be interested to see how it is carried. Also the price Mr. Zimmermann charges for one?
Thanks!

DavidJayUden · 07-05-2014, 01:02 AM

So what is the legal status of these stocks in the USA?
dju

alanint · 07-05-2014, 07:42 AM

Technically, if a stock can be proven to have a historical contex, a reproduction of said stock is generlly allowed. The one glaring exception seems to be C96 stocks, which must be original

sheepherder · 07-05-2014, 08:42 AM

These are very handsome looking stock-holsters, the prototypes; I haven't quite grasped how massive they are, but fully enclosing an artillery is not a small job...

The length of pull must be something like 16"/17"+...

Thosbi · 07-05-2014, 06:36 PM

More pictures and information of the wooden holster set.

- length of the wooden holster is 40 cm
- length of the leather is 42 cm
- the price for the leather was 850 Euro.
(Mr. Zimmermann needed for working 32 hours!!

)

Regards
Thosbi

sheepherder · 07-05-2014, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thosbi

More pictures and information of the wooden holster set.

- length of the wooden holster is 40 cm

...+5cm for the Luger = 50cm...That's 19 5/8 inches length of pull...

That's a good long reach!!!

Most US rifles/shotguns are right around ~14 inches [35.56cm]...

wlyon · 04-14-2015, 10:52 AM

ATF also allows reproduction stocks for a Broomhandle. Again like the Artillery it must duplicate an original. They do not address a prototype so might be tricky. Bill

Ron Wood · 04-14-2015, 11:34 AM

The wording of the 1981 BATFE letter permitting reproduction stocks states:
“…any Luger or Browning Hi-Power pistol which would be removed from the purview of the NFA if equipped with an original shoulder stock, would also not be subject to the NFA if equipped with a reproduction shoulder stock which either duplicates or closely approximates the dimensions and configuration of the original stock.”

The ATF curio and relic list statement for the LP08 that is removed from the purview of the NFA reads as follows: “Luger, German model 1914, Artillery model pistol, mfd. by DWM or Erfurt, having chambers dated 1914-1918, bearing Imperial German military proofmarks & accompanied by the original, German mfd. artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stocks.”

Note that the configuration of the shoulder stock is not stipulated. For the Navy Luger it is expressly stipulated that the stock must be “…original board-type detachable shoulder stocks bearing brass or iron discs…”, and goes on to give the exact dimensions of a Navy stock.

Since the prototype stock meets the requirement of being “German mfd. artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stock”, it would seem to follow that an exact reproduction of the prototype meets the criteria for exemption.

09-11-2013, 07:33 PM	#1
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Wooden Artillery Stock Gents I noticed a Artillery Luger wooden holster shoulder stock up for bid on this weekends RIA sale. Haven't seen one since these old E-bay auctions. If these where really made by DWM or Erfurt,this one would have be a real one. I am sure will bid up above my budget! Bob http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/59/lid/1400 __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns" Last edited by saab-bob; 09-11-2013 at 07:39 PM. Reason: grammer

09-14-2013, 03:59 PM	#2
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Wow! Well,somebody thought that stock was real. It just sold for $13,000 + fees on the RIA action. Wonder who was the lucky winner? Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

09-14-2013, 09:00 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	I have seen pictures and one at a local auction I wanted to buy, but it went way above my pocketbook BTW, I moved this to its own thread. Ed Attached Thumbnails __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-14-2013, 09:02 PM	#5
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Cirelaw Just tried my link,it still works. Take care! Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

07-03-2014, 06:43 PM	#7
Thosbi User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Germany Posts: 26 Thanks: 81 Thanked 43 Times in 8 Posts	Pictures of my wooden holster set. Regards from germany Thosbi Attached Thumbnails

09-14-2013, 04:21 PM	#3
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Both appear to have been removed!

09-14-2013, 09:04 PM	#6
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	We aim to please!~~~Eric

07-04-2014, 12:05 AM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Thosbi, Well..That is just about the coolest thing EVER! The stock looks like the recent stocks made by a fellow in Germany..Did you have the leather made? It's almost good enough to pass for original. NICE Tell us more and welcome to the Forum! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-04-2014, 03:55 AM	#9
skeeter4206 User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Augusta, GA Posts: 448 Thanks: 52 Thanked 88 Times in 49 Posts	Wow indeed! That is a really nice setup. I'm curious about artilleries and that's the first time I have seen one set up that way, with the wooden portion inside the leather holster. Did they issue setups like the one Thosbi shows here. I would imagine if they did issue a complete setup like this to someone in the military at that time. Or is this a commercial style setup someone could purchase if these desired back then. Either way, that is really nice. Thanks for the photos Thosbi.

07-04-2014, 05:05 AM	#10
Thosbi User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Germany Posts: 26 Thanks: 81 Thanked 43 Times in 8 Posts	@ skeeter4206 For comparison. Here is the original and more information about: http://jamesdjulia.com/item/3073-358/ http://jamesdjulia.com/item/3073a-358/ @ lugerholsterrepair Yes, the stock comes from Mr. Basnakowski. ( The same source as that of Harry ) The leather was made by Mr. Axel Zimmermann http://www.ledermanufaktur-zimmerman...dex%20eng.html Both are perfect work. Regards Thosbi

07-04-2014, 05:26 PM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Some of these repro "broom type" LPO8 stocks were made in Poland about 20 years ago and a few were imported into the USA by Collectors Armory and sold for around $600 each. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

07-04-2014, 10:10 PM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Thosbi..Both are perfect work. Yes! I can vouch for the stock..I had one delivered here. I got to inspect it for a day or two. Mr. Basnakowski is a master stock maker..the wood and metal are top notch. The leather on it is very well done too! Could you post a picture of the backside? I would be interested to see how it is carried. Also the price Mr. Zimmermann charges for one? Thanks! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-05-2014, 01:02 AM	#13
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	So what is the legal status of these stocks in the USA? dju

07-05-2014, 07:42 AM	#14
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Technically, if a stock can be proven to have a historical contex, a reproduction of said stock is generlly allowed. The one glaring exception seems to be C96 stocks, which must be original

07-05-2014, 08:42 AM	#15
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	These are very handsome looking stock-holsters, the prototypes; I haven't quite grasped how massive they are, but fully enclosing an artillery is not a small job... The length of pull must be something like 16"/17"+... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

07-05-2014, 06:36 PM	#16
Thosbi User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Germany Posts: 26 Thanks: 81 Thanked 43 Times in 8 Posts	More pictures and information of the wooden holster set. - length of the wooden holster is 40 cm - length of the leather is 42 cm - the price for the leather was 850 Euro. (Mr. Zimmermann needed for working 32 hours!! ) Regards Thosbi Attached Thumbnails

04-14-2015, 10:52 AM	#18
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,636 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,559 Times in 955 Posts	ATF also allows reproduction stocks for a Broomhandle. Again like the Artillery it must duplicate an original. They do not address a prototype so might be tricky. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

04-14-2015, 11:34 AM	#19
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	The wording of the 1981 BATFE letter permitting reproduction stocks states: “…any Luger or Browning Hi-Power pistol which would be removed from the purview of the NFA if equipped with an original shoulder stock, would also not be subject to the NFA if equipped with a reproduction shoulder stock which either duplicates or closely approximates the dimensions and configuration of the original stock.” The ATF curio and relic list statement for the LP08 that is removed from the purview of the NFA reads as follows: “Luger, German model 1914, Artillery model pistol, mfd. by DWM or Erfurt, having chambers dated 1914-1918, bearing Imperial German military proofmarks & accompanied by the original, German mfd. artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stocks.” Note that the configuration of the shoulder stock is not stipulated. For the Navy Luger it is expressly stipulated that the stock must be “…original board-type detachable shoulder stocks bearing brass or iron discs…”, and goes on to give the exact dimensions of a Navy stock. Since the prototype stock meets the requirement of being “German mfd. artillery type, detachable wooden shoulder stock”, it would seem to follow that an exact reproduction of the prototype meets the criteria for exemption. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction