1921 luger

[lugar05]

Has any one seen or have a 1921 luger in there collection , how scarce are they?
thanks Nick

[Edward Tinker]

yes, I have owned 2 or 3 of them

they aren't commercial but army or police

[kzullick]

I own one, numbered as military but later converted to commercial.

[lugar05]

Ed,
are they worth 1300 dollars, ? my friend has one for sale

[DavidJayUden]

I'm not Ed, but we have see a few come across this forum recently, and it seems to me like while they are not as common as other years, they are not necessarily more valuable. Actually while they are probably historically significant, they would seem to be less historically significant than a War To End All Wars, or a 3rd Reich, gun. So if it were a WW1 gun would it be a good deal at $1300? You'll have to answer that because we don't have it in front of us...
dju

[Dwight Gruber]

1921 dated Lugers come in several varieties.

In 1920 DWM began making P08s under contract to the newly-formed army weapons office. These pistols are found dated 1920 and 1921, serial-numbered in four-digit no-suffix, a, and b suffixes. They are found with various combinations of eagle/ArA4 and eagle/WaA4 acceptance and proof stamps. At this time the police procured their P08s through the army weapons office, so these pistols may be found with both army and police supplementary characteristics.

Some of these dated and army-accepted pistols are found with 5-digit commercial serial numbers, meaning that they were removed from the commercial production stream to fulfill the army contract.

In 1921 the Interallied Military Control Commission (IMKK) arrived in Germany and shut down DWM's military production. This left DWM with a parts stock of 1921 dated (but never assembled) receivers, which were used in production of the i suffix range alphabet commercial Lugers. These chamber-dated examples appear throughout the range, apparently at random.

--Dwight

[Sergio Natali]

Unfortunately I've never had a 1921 Luger, I had a "commercial 1920" instead, that apparently are not that hard to find in good condtions.

[Dwight Gruber]

"Commercial 1920" is an imprecise and misleading collector designation, which is not associated with an actual chamber date.

--Dwight

[Don M]

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

In 1920 DWM began making P08s under contract to the newly-formed army weapons office. These pistols are found dated 1920 and 1921, serial-numbered in four-digit no-suffix, a, and b suffixes.

There were also at least 7500 1920-dated DWM P08s manufactured with n suffixes.

[Sergio Natali]

After 1922 DWM became BKIW and obtained the authorization to manufacture commercial Lugers for the foreign market (Swiss market in particular), they were basically 1900/06 but the s/n was the German military sort, i.e. four figures followed by a letter suffix . These were commonly called "Swiss Commercial 1920" or "Mod 1923" either with a long or with a short chamber.
Apparently many of these guns came from unsold stocks, or military guns reworked, and we can find 100 mm barrels but also 120 and even 150 mm barrels.
Also the markings are a bit mixed up as we can find 120 mm barrels marked "N" and with the "Bernerprobe" and the Geneva cross.
Other "commercials" were also assembled wit 9 Para gauge.
In 1922 many of these guns were bought by Abercrombie & Fitch of New York, that's why they are often called "Mod 1923"

My 2 cents

Sergio

[lugar05]

I want to thank everyone that has shared on this thread
Nick

[kkiley]

Nick here are some photos of mine Kevin

[lugar05]

Kevin thanks for pics

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by kzullick

I own one, numbered as military but later converted to commercial.

Kenny - Serious question (as opposed to my usual sarcastic questions)...How is a military converted to commercial???

Originally Posted by kkiley

Nick here are some photos of mine Kevin

Kevin, I must have missed your thread on your Luger...What does the "Zn" on the chamber indicate???

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

How is a military converted to commercial???

Some guns sold commercially by DWM during the period after WW1 were made from unused military parts, or were unissued military pistols.

[Ron Smith]

If your friend's 1921 is in good condition and has all matching numbers, it is well worth $1300 IMO. approx. 8 to 10 thousand went to the military. approx. 40 thousand 1920 and 1921's went to the Police.

[DATURK]

I started another thread hoping to find additional information about it, specifically if it is in fact an army DWM, was I well bought at 1200, and does the brown receiver seem strange and out of place?

Please follow this link to the auction that alerted me to the pistol, there's a lot of nice pictures of it.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=430847848

I attached one photo that really shows the brown.

What do you guys think?

[alanint]

Finish varies by the heat applied to the metal, the freshness of the rust blueing solution, ambient temperature/humidity, etc.
it is not terribly unusual to see a major pistol component slightly off from the rest of the gun. If the factory worker did something as simple as go to lunch before finishing that last component, if could affect the final finish.

[DavidJayUden]

I'm wondering if someone hasn't wiped on cold bluing or something similar that does not hold fast. Usually smell is a tell-tale of cold bluing.
dju

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by Ron Smith

If your friend's 1921 is in good condition and has all matching numbers, it is well worth $1300 IMO. approx. 8 to 10 thousand went to the military. approx. 40 thousand 1920 and 1921's went to the Police.

Ron, good to see you on here, I miss you posting.