"Commercial Artillery"?

Zorba · 05-18-2015, 03:44 PM

Was at my LGS/Range yesterday, and they had a "Commercial Artillery" in their case. It was a 1916 DWM with a long artillery bbl, maybe 10 or 12 inches, plus two extra bbls, an 8 inch and a 4 inch. Had a cleaning rod, an original looking stock, a couple of holsters, three books ("Imperial Lugers", "Lugers at Random", "Luger Tips"). There was supposedly a box of period ammo, but I couldn't see it in the "pile". All this in a nice glass topped display case. $4,995.

To my uneducated eye, it looked pretty original and unmolested - I should have taken a picture, I will if its still there next time I go.

Were Artillery models sold commercially?

DavidJayUden · 05-18-2015, 04:07 PM

If it was a 1916 dated DWM, then my guess is that it was a military gun that was converted to "commercial" and sold on the civilian market. All the "stuff" sounds great, but in the end you end up with "stuff", and most likely not worth the asking price. And you know the drill, photos may help. I'm curious if the upper was notched for an artillery sight and if it had a rear sight on the toggle.
dju

sheepherder · 05-18-2015, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zormpas

Was at my LGS/Range yesterday, and they had a "Commercial Artillery" in their case. It was a 1916 DWM with a long artillery bbl, maybe 10 or 12 inches, plus two extra bbls, an 8 inch and a 4 inch...

Zorba, did any of the barrels have an artillery rear sight mounted on the barrel???

Datig & Jones both show long barrel Lugers (longer than the artillery eight inch) and some had 'artillery' barrel mounted sights and some did not...

I didn't add up the 'stuff' separately but the price seems way out of line...

Diver6106 · 05-18-2015, 08:32 PM

Getting a set of barrels is only good, IF they are easily interchangable. And Lugers are not!

sheepherder · 05-18-2015, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diver6106

Getting a set of barrels is only good, IF they are easily interchangable. And Lugers are not!

Really??? Takes me about 10 minutes to swap a barrel on a Luger...

I guess you mean at the range. Yeah, the barrel vise and receiver wrench are a PITA to lug around...

CAP Black · 05-18-2015, 11:18 PM

I really don't see the items as not being justified as to price, Three (matching) barrels, stock, holsters, etc. Eugene has a waiting list for re-manufactured pistols into carbines - with one barrel - for the biggest part of that amount.
I don't get it.
Thanks
Jaxk

Sergio Natali · 05-19-2015, 08:03 AM

Just one word, "commercial / artillery" sounds a bit amusing to me, how can a "commercial" still be called "artillery"

Sergio

sheepherder · 05-19-2015, 09:02 AM

I come up with a total of under $2K. As follows -

DWM w/10-12 in bbl = $850
2 extra bbls = $400
stock + 'couple of' holsters = $375
3 books = $250
case = $100

total = $1975

Having a long barrel makes it a shooter. Nothing I read here says 'matched barrels'. For my pricing, I chose to err on the high side.

Just my own little $.02.

Zorba · 05-19-2015, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Zorba, did any of the barrels have an artillery rear sight mounted on the barrel???

Yes, the longest bbl, which was on the gun, had a rear sight on it. Not sure about the other two, they were mostly underneath "stuff" in the display case.

DavidJayUden · 05-19-2015, 04:30 PM

Well it sounds like an interesting pile of stuff that would appeal primarily to collectors. Maybe you could persuade the LGS to photo it all and post it here, that is assuming that you're are not going after it.
dju

Zorba · 05-19-2015, 06:45 PM

I'll see if the LGS will let me take some pix next time I'm in - I'll throw my SLR in the car just in case!

danielsand · 05-19-2015, 07:42 PM

"Artillery Lugers" and "Luger Carbines" were most certainly sold as "commercial" (civilian) pistols.

Bare in mind that the term "Artillery" was (mostly) American moniker (because it was issued primarily to artillery units), but in reality the pistols were called "Lange Pistole 08", and as such were sold to civilian market. They were EXPENSIVE for the time, and MANY land owners/industrialists/nobility purchased them.

My mother brought one as a trophy from the war, and this type of Luger was commonly called "The Stork" (as my mom called it) in the Balkans. I guess the long barrel resembled dis-proportionally long legs on the bird.

Sergio Natali · 05-20-2015, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielsand

"Artillery Lugers" and "Luger Carbines" were most certainly sold as "commercial" (civilian) pistols.

Bare in mind that the term "Artillery" was (mostly) American moniker (because it was issued primarily to artillery units), but in reality the pistols were called "Lange Pistole 08", and as such were sold to civilian market. They were EXPENSIVE for the time, and MANY land owners/industrialists/nobility purchased them.

My mother brought one as a trophy from the war, and this type of Luger was commonly called "The Stork" (as my mom called it) in the Balkans. I guess the long barrel resembled dis-proportionally long legs on the bird.

Danel

You're absolutely right, in fact the original name was "Lange Pistole 08" mine was a bit of an ironic remark.

Sergio

DavidJayUden · 05-20-2015, 09:34 AM

But given that the gun in question bears a 1916 chamber date, it seems to me that this particular Luger was a military gun converted by persons unknown for the civilian market.
Are we in agreement there?
dju

sheepherder · 05-20-2015, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

But given that the gun in question bears a 1916 chamber date, it seems to me that this particular Luger was a military gun converted by persons unknown for the civilian market.
Are we in agreement there?
dju

Could also be that it is shown in the three books. Maybe a popular conversion following WW I.

A pawn shop seems an unlikely place to find a cache like this. Perhaps an attic trunk find by some granddaughter???

cirelaw · 05-20-2015, 10:43 AM

I found an article that addresses some of these issues including the different barrels~http://www.lugerlp08.com/the%20artil...%20article.htm and decided to line them up!

Sergio Natali · 05-20-2015, 12:57 PM

Eric

You've found another interesting article I think from Mauro Baudino, something else worth reading as there is always something to learn.

Sergio

cirelaw · 05-20-2015, 01:55 PM

Sergio, You are my inspiration~ I really like and need input instead to know what in particular what interests you all or others find interesting! I have learned so much from proofing each topic. As always TKS Eric

Zorba · 05-20-2015, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder;271731A

pawn shop seems an unlikely place to find a cache like this...

Not a pawn shop; again, a LGS. Supposedly a "local collector" put it in on consignment.

ithacaartist · 05-21-2015, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zormpas

Not a pawn shop; again, a LGS. Supposedly a "local collector" put it in on consignment.

Collector of what? $!

05-18-2015, 03:44 PM	#1
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 527 Times in 290 Posts	"Commercial Artillery"? Was at my LGS/Range yesterday, and they had a "Commercial Artillery" in their case. It was a 1916 DWM with a long artillery bbl, maybe 10 or 12 inches, plus two extra bbls, an 8 inch and a 4 inch. Had a cleaning rod, an original looking stock, a couple of holsters, three books ("Imperial Lugers", "Lugers at Random", "Luger Tips"). There was supposedly a box of period ammo, but I couldn't see it in the "pile". All this in a nice glass topped display case. $4,995. To my uneducated eye, it looked pretty original and unmolested - I should have taken a picture, I will if its still there next time I go. Were Artillery models sold commercially?

05-19-2015, 08:03 AM	#7
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Just one word, "commercial / artillery" sounds a bit amusing to me, how can a "commercial" still be called "artillery" Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list. Last edited by Sergio Natali; 05-19-2015 at 10:34 AM.

05-19-2015, 09:02 AM	#8
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	I come up with a total of under $2K. As follows - DWM w/10-12 in bbl = $850 2 extra bbls = $400 stock + 'couple of' holsters = $375 3 books = $250 case = $100 total = $1975 Having a long barrel makes it a shooter. Nothing I read here says 'matched barrels'. For my pricing, I chose to err on the high side. Just my own little $.02. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

05-20-2015, 10:43 AM	#16
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I found an article that addresses some of these issues including the different barrels~http://www.lugerlp08.com/the%20artil...%20article.htm and decided to line them up! Attached Thumbnails

05-20-2015, 12:57 PM	#17
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Eric You've found another interesting article I think from Mauro Baudino, something else worth reading as there is always something to learn. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

05-18-2015, 04:07 PM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	If it was a 1916 dated DWM, then my guess is that it was a military gun that was converted to "commercial" and sold on the civilian market. All the "stuff" sounds great, but in the end you end up with "stuff", and most likely not worth the asking price. And you know the drill, photos may help. I'm curious if the upper was notched for an artillery sight and if it had a rear sight on the toggle. dju

05-18-2015, 08:32 PM	#4
Diver6106 User Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Mt. Vernon VA Posts: 244 Thanks: 1,424 Thanked 117 Times in 75 Posts	Getting a set of barrels is only good, IF they are easily interchangable. And Lugers are not!

05-18-2015, 11:18 PM	#6
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 168 Times in 96 Posts	I really don't see the items as not being justified as to price, Three (matching) barrels, stock, holsters, etc. Eugene has a waiting list for re-manufactured pistols into carbines - with one barrel - for the biggest part of that amount. I don't get it. Thanks Jaxk

05-19-2015, 04:30 PM	#10
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Well it sounds like an interesting pile of stuff that would appeal primarily to collectors. Maybe you could persuade the LGS to photo it all and post it here, that is assuming that you're are not going after it. dju

05-19-2015, 06:45 PM	#11
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 952 Thanks: 777 Thanked 527 Times in 290 Posts	I'll see if the LGS will let me take some pix next time I'm in - I'll throw my SLR in the car just in case!

05-19-2015, 07:42 PM	#12
danielsand User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: SoCal Posts: 137 Thanks: 52 Thanked 100 Times in 43 Posts	"Artillery Lugers" and "Luger Carbines" were most certainly sold as "commercial" (civilian) pistols. Bare in mind that the term "Artillery" was (mostly) American moniker (because it was issued primarily to artillery units), but in reality the pistols were called "Lange Pistole 08", and as such were sold to civilian market. They were EXPENSIVE for the time, and MANY land owners/industrialists/nobility purchased them. My mother brought one as a trophy from the war, and this type of Luger was commonly called "The Stork" (as my mom called it) in the Balkans. I guess the long barrel resembled dis-proportionally long legs on the bird.

05-20-2015, 09:34 AM	#14
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	But given that the gun in question bears a 1916 chamber date, it seems to me that this particular Luger was a military gun converted by persons unknown for the civilian market. Are we in agreement there? dju

05-20-2015, 01:55 PM	#18
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Sergio, You are my inspiration~ I really like and need input instead to know what in particular what interests you all or others find interesting! I have learned so much from proofing each topic. As always TKS Eric