DWM ID/vintage/value?

guntecjohn · 11-23-2015, 05:46 PM

Came across this DWM with script "a" suffix. All serial numbers match. Has matching magazine. Someone had their name engraved on the grip at some time (I'm sure this is a famous German officer

).

Can anyone tell me more about this Luger? Year of manufacture and possible value? Any info on the holster?

Norme · 11-23-2015, 06:11 PM

Hi John, Welcome to the forum! You have a rather rare and collectible "DWM 1st Issue", made in 1909. It's too bad about that added name because it seriously detracts from what would otherwise have been a valuable gun, particularly with that matching magazine!
Regards, Norm

DonVoigt · 11-23-2015, 06:17 PM

Welcome, nice piece.
But could you please just use the picture host of the forum?

Your pictures are too small and when expanded are "squished"; and they will likely eventually disappear.

Do some looking at these two sites for high retail values:
Simpsons
Legacy

just put them in your search engine

alanint · 11-23-2015, 06:55 PM

This looks like a candidate for a bit of restoration on the frame.

guntecjohn · 11-23-2015, 07:21 PM

Fixed the pics. Been a very long time since I used forum discussion boards!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Welcome, nice piece.
But could you please just use the picture host of the forum?

Your pictures are too small and when expanded are "squished"; and they will likely eventually disappear.

Do some looking at these two sites for high retail values:
Simpsons
Legacy

just put them in your search engine

DavidJayUden · 11-23-2015, 08:12 PM

Nice gun, as-is. Leave it alone.

wlyon · 11-23-2015, 08:50 PM

A Ist issue with a matching mag is rare. In the condition it is in I would at least check with Thor about fixing the grip. I am not much on restorations but this one I might have the grip only worked on. The holster is a WW1 German military holster. This I would send to Jerry Burney (lugerholsterrepair) for some work on the belt loops etc. Is there a manufacturer and or date inside the lid? Very nice luger. Bill

lugerholsterrepair · 11-23-2015, 09:24 PM

I don't think I would remove the F. Brahe. but I think I would get that spot rust blued. Depending on several things..as far as value goes..I might be very happy to pay $1500. Condition is a factor here. I bought one of these a year ago..no matching mag and I paid $2800 but it's almost original mint. Easy 98% if not better pistol. Matching mag adds a lot but the F. Brahe. detracts a lot. With that evening out..scratches and loss of straw I think $1500 would be a comfortable figure if you are trying to buy it.
The holster could be improved upon with belt loops...There is a broken magazine in the mag pouch..what does it look like?

George Anderson · 11-23-2015, 10:31 PM

Excellent pistol, I would not do anything to it. It seems that the name F. Brahe. was put in place after a unit mark was removed. There is no record of an officer with that name in the Prussian Army in 1914. The pistol has a hold-open added so it was not issued to a Bavarian or Wurttemberg unit. The name may appear in a post war listing or with German Graves Registration. I will look later on.

DavidJayUden · 11-23-2015, 11:29 PM

It's interesting that the font of the name is similar to the font we see used for unit markings. Coincidence? I think not...

CAP Black · 11-23-2015, 11:41 PM

Wow! I thought that provenance was a large part of collectible interest. It appears to me that some suggestions were to do away with part of that on this Luger???
Just my 3 Deutsche Marks
Thanks
Jack

DonVoigt · 11-23-2015, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAP Black

Wow! I thought that provenance was a large part of collectible interest. It appears to me that some suggestions were to do away with part of that on this Luger???
Just my 3 Deutsche Marks
Thanks
Jack

I don't see that said, only that it could be spot re-finished to replace the finish someone stupidly removed.

Spot rust blue can be done.

I agree that the name looks as done by period stamping.

I'd leave it alone, and ponder the spot touch up depending on how it looked when in my hands.

DonVoigt · 11-23-2015, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAP Black

Wow! I thought that provenance was a large part of collectible interest. It appears to me that some suggestions were to do away with part of that on this Luger???
Just my 3 Deutsche Marks
Thanks
Jack

I don't see that said, only that it could be spot re-finished to replace the finish someone stupidly removed.

But a name is not "provenance" unless connected to or supported by some other information, IMO.

Spot rust blue can be done.

I agree that the name looks as done by period stamping.

I'd leave it alone, and ponder the spot touch up depending on how it looked when in my hands.

lugerholsterrepair · 11-24-2015, 12:00 AM

There's provenance and then there's damage you may want to consider fixing. Spot replacing the rust blue that's missing is certainly one consideration. If it were mine I think I would do it. Nice and rare pistol..deserves to be fixed..but that's just me.

Like Bill..I don't like buffed and re blued guns. But I have had Charles Danner spot rust blue a couple of bad places over the years and you can't tell it's been done. If you can fix an ugly spot and can't tell..like I say, it's worth considering.

Sergio Natali · 11-24-2015, 05:14 AM

In my opinon vintage LUGERS should NEVER be refinished or modified because it ruins any value they had as a collectible firearm, then to each his own.
IMHO

guntecjohn · 11-24-2015, 11:11 AM

The top of the belt loops seem to have been broke and someone just stitched them back on without the turned over portion. I cannot discern any markings inside the holster flap. There are no other markings on the outside of the holster.

guntecjohn · 11-24-2015, 11:17 AM

Here's a pic of the magazine in the holster:

Serial numbers do not match the pistol.

DavidJayUden · 11-24-2015, 01:38 PM

Sometimes there is maker and year info. embossed (stamped) into the leather on the inside or outside that is very difficult to see.
dju

Thor · 11-28-2015, 07:43 PM

I can redo the grip strap with rust bluing. Nice Luger otherwise

JRi · 04-09-2016, 01:56 PM

hi,
What is the mark at barrel? Never seen that before..

11-23-2015, 05:46 PM	#1
guntecjohn New User Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	DWM ID/vintage/value? Came across this DWM with script "a" suffix. All serial numbers match. Has matching magazine. Someone had their name engraved on the grip at some time (I'm sure this is a famous German officer ). Can anyone tell me more about this Luger? Year of manufacture and possible value? Any info on the holster? Last edited by guntecjohn; 11-23-2015 at 07:19 PM. Reason: clean up photos

11-23-2015, 08:50 PM	#7
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,561 Times in 956 Posts	A Ist issue with a matching mag is rare. In the condition it is in I would at least check with Thor about fixing the grip. I am not much on restorations but this one I might have the grip only worked on. The holster is a WW1 German military holster. This I would send to Jerry Burney (lugerholsterrepair) for some work on the belt loops etc. Is there a manufacturer and or date inside the lid? Very nice luger. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

11-23-2015, 09:24 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	I don't think I would remove the F. Brahe. but I think I would get that spot rust blued. Depending on several things..as far as value goes..I might be very happy to pay $1500. Condition is a factor here. I bought one of these a year ago..no matching mag and I paid $2800 but it's almost original mint. Easy 98% if not better pistol. Matching mag adds a lot but the F. Brahe. detracts a lot. With that evening out..scratches and loss of straw I think $1500 would be a comfortable figure if you are trying to buy it. The holster could be improved upon with belt loops...There is a broken magazine in the mag pouch..what does it look like? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-24-2015, 12:00 AM	#14
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	There's provenance and then there's damage you may want to consider fixing. Spot replacing the rust blue that's missing is certainly one consideration. If it were mine I think I would do it. Nice and rare pistol..deserves to be fixed..but that's just me. Like Bill..I don't like buffed and re blued guns. But I have had Charles Danner spot rust blue a couple of bad places over the years and you can't tell it's been done. If you can fix an ugly spot and can't tell..like I say, it's worth considering. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-24-2015, 05:14 AM	#15
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	In my opinon vintage LUGERS should NEVER be refinished or modified because it ruins any value they had as a collectible firearm, then to each his own. IMHO __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

11-23-2015, 06:11 PM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi John, Welcome to the forum! You have a rather rare and collectible "DWM 1st Issue", made in 1909. It's too bad about that added name because it seriously detracts from what would otherwise have been a valuable gun, particularly with that matching magazine! Regards, Norm

11-23-2015, 06:17 PM	#3
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,442 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Welcome, nice piece. But could you please just use the picture host of the forum? Your pictures are too small and when expanded are "squished"; and they will likely eventually disappear. Do some looking at these two sites for high retail values: Simpsons Legacy just put them in your search engine

11-23-2015, 06:55 PM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	This looks like a candidate for a bit of restoration on the frame.

11-23-2015, 08:12 PM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Nice gun, as-is. Leave it alone.

11-23-2015, 10:31 PM	#9
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Excellent pistol, I would not do anything to it. It seems that the name F. Brahe. was put in place after a unit mark was removed. There is no record of an officer with that name in the Prussian Army in 1914. The pistol has a hold-open added so it was not issued to a Bavarian or Wurttemberg unit. The name may appear in a post war listing or with German Graves Registration. I will look later on.

11-23-2015, 11:29 PM	#10
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	It's interesting that the font of the name is similar to the font we see used for unit markings. Coincidence? I think not...

11-23-2015, 11:41 PM	#11
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 168 Times in 96 Posts	Wow! I thought that provenance was a large part of collectible interest. It appears to me that some suggestions were to do away with part of that on this Luger??? Just my 3 Deutsche Marks Thanks Jack

11-24-2015, 11:11 AM	#16
guntecjohn New User Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	The top of the belt loops seem to have been broke and someone just stitched them back on without the turned over portion. I cannot discern any markings inside the holster flap. There are no other markings on the outside of the holster.

11-24-2015, 11:17 AM	#17
guntecjohn New User Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Here's a pic of the magazine in the holster: Serial numbers do not match the pistol.

11-24-2015, 01:38 PM	#18
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Sometimes there is maker and year info. embossed (stamped) into the leather on the inside or outside that is very difficult to see. dju

11-28-2015, 07:43 PM	#19
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I can redo the grip strap with rust bluing. Nice Luger otherwise __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email [email protected] ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

04-09-2016, 01:56 PM	#20
JRi User Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 8 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	hi, What is the mark at barrel? Never seen that before..