Spandau Info......Wanted!

Brandon · 07-30-2002, 03:16 PM

Hi everyone!
I need as much info that I can get on Spandau Lugers! Any kind of tid-bit would be of great help! Such stuff as factory locations, theories as to why they were produced in the first place, etc. So if anyone has some good info, I would appreciate it if you would contact me through private message.

Thanks in advance!
Brandon

Thor · 07-30-2002, 04:57 PM

Boy......that was a can of worms! Good luck!!

Brandon · 07-30-2002, 05:14 PM

Thor,
Yeah...I kinda thought it could be! I'm trying to do a school report on them <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" /> , but my lack of info has greatly hindered me! So I figured the forum was one of the best places to ask for help!

Regards,Brandon

Johnny Peppers · 07-30-2002, 05:43 PM

You really picked a controversial Luger to do your book report on. Maybe you can find data that has not come to light so far. There were only two facilities that had the capability of manufacturing Lugers at the time the Spandaus were allegedly made, which was DWM and Erfurt. There is no documentation of Spandau ever manufacturing a Luger, and someone would know where the equipment went if it ever existed. It is well documented that the equipment at DWM went to Mauser, and the Erfurt equipment went to Simson. Some seem to think that they were rebuilds, but it hardly seems plausible that Spandau would remove all previous markings and completely re-mark the pistols. A Spandau proof mark would have served the same purpose.
Whether true or not, I seem to remember reading that all the Spandau Lugers had been found in the US and that none had ever surfaced in Europe.

Roadkill · 07-30-2002, 05:47 PM

Just a suggestion, instead of limiting the report to only the Spandau, change subject heading to the top five (or 3 or 10) rarest Lugers and use the Spandau/.45/baby Luger as the center piece. This will broaden the perspective and focus it toward the rarest ones, allowing for more info and pictures without becoming too broad and shallow.

RK

Brandon · 07-30-2002, 07:23 PM

Johnny,
Jan Still reports in "Imperial Lugers" "that most Spandau Lugers bear the Crown/RC revisions-commission stamp", "Which indicates a serviceable Luger that has failed inspection because of non critical tolerances or external flaws. The Crown/RC stamp approved the Luger for service and absolved the inspectors from blame if the Luger subsequently failed"

I have peiced together a theory, Although it probably holds no merit I will share it anyway!

My theory is that since most Spandau Lugers are 1918 dated, in 1918 it must have been clear that the war was all but lost for Germany! They were surely in desparate need of supplies! Also you must remember that both DWM and Erfurt Lugers were tested and inspected for military use by inspectors in the Spandau factory! This was quite possibly where rejected pieces were held and/or destroyed. Going back to the desparate situation of Germany in 1918, it most likely seemed that, if a Luger failed the military inspection the smart thing to do would be to class failed Lugers as "fixer-upers" instead of them being junked! So they set aside a small number (Still estimates production to be 200) of failed Lugers to try this process, and upon completion it was determined that new Lugers could be made at about the same rate of speed (Or some other reason) and as an end result, The completed Lugers were pressed into service but, idea was scraped and the tooling destroyed!

Does that sound reasonable? As for all reported examples being in found in the U.S. Maybe it's a coincidence maybe it's not? I guess that some parts of the Spandau mystery will never be revealed!

Brandon...

max2cam · 07-30-2002, 10:25 PM

If I understand this correctly, the rejected parts would have come from DWM or Erfurt and when (if) assembled at Spandau, they would have been largely hand-fitted off to the side and little if any "special" equipment would have been needed (or kept track of later).

Just a shot in the dark -- I have no opinion on the supposed Spandau Lugers one way or the other (but only that the names spoken together sounds very cool).

Pete Ebbink · 07-30-2002, 11:48 PM

Hello Brandon,

You might want to give Bob Simpson a call at their Galesburg. IL shop.

Bob has a Spandau for consignment sale (I think for $ 15K or so...). Maybe Bob or the gun's owner can give you more info.

Pete...

Brandon · 07-31-2002, 12:06 AM

Pete,
Check your private messages please... <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Thanks, Brandon

07-30-2002, 03:16 PM	#1
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Spandau Info......Wanted! Hi everyone! I need as much info that I can get on Spandau Lugers! Any kind of tid-bit would be of great help! Such stuff as factory locations, theories as to why they were produced in the first place, etc. So if anyone has some good info, I would appreciate it if you would contact me through private message. Thanks in advance! Brandon

07-30-2002, 04:57 PM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Boy......that was a can of worms! Good luck!! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email [email protected] ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-30-2002, 05:14 PM	#3
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thor, Yeah...I kinda thought it could be! I'm trying to do a school report on them <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" /> , but my lack of info has greatly hindered me! So I figured the forum was one of the best places to ask for help! Regards,Brandon

07-30-2002, 05:43 PM	#4
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	You really picked a controversial Luger to do your book report on. Maybe you can find data that has not come to light so far. There were only two facilities that had the capability of manufacturing Lugers at the time the Spandaus were allegedly made, which was DWM and Erfurt. There is no documentation of Spandau ever manufacturing a Luger, and someone would know where the equipment went if it ever existed. It is well documented that the equipment at DWM went to Mauser, and the Erfurt equipment went to Simson. Some seem to think that they were rebuilds, but it hardly seems plausible that Spandau would remove all previous markings and completely re-mark the pistols. A Spandau proof mark would have served the same purpose. Whether true or not, I seem to remember reading that all the Spandau Lugers had been found in the US and that none had ever surfaced in Europe.

07-30-2002, 05:47 PM	#5
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Just a suggestion, instead of limiting the report to only the Spandau, change subject heading to the top five (or 3 or 10) rarest Lugers and use the Spandau/.45/baby Luger as the center piece. This will broaden the perspective and focus it toward the rarest ones, allowing for more info and pictures without becoming too broad and shallow. RK

07-30-2002, 07:23 PM	#6
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Johnny, Jan Still reports in "Imperial Lugers" "that most Spandau Lugers bear the Crown/RC revisions-commission stamp", "Which indicates a serviceable Luger that has failed inspection because of non critical tolerances or external flaws. The Crown/RC stamp approved the Luger for service and absolved the inspectors from blame if the Luger subsequently failed" I have peiced together a theory, Although it probably holds no merit I will share it anyway! My theory is that since most Spandau Lugers are 1918 dated, in 1918 it must have been clear that the war was all but lost for Germany! They were surely in desparate need of supplies! Also you must remember that both DWM and Erfurt Lugers were tested and inspected for military use by inspectors in the Spandau factory! This was quite possibly where rejected pieces were held and/or destroyed. Going back to the desparate situation of Germany in 1918, it most likely seemed that, if a Luger failed the military inspection the smart thing to do would be to class failed Lugers as "fixer-upers" instead of them being junked! So they set aside a small number (Still estimates production to be 200) of failed Lugers to try this process, and upon completion it was determined that new Lugers could be made at about the same rate of speed (Or some other reason) and as an end result, The completed Lugers were pressed into service but, idea was scraped and the tooling destroyed! Does that sound reasonable? As for all reported examples being in found in the U.S. Maybe it's a coincidence maybe it's not? I guess that some parts of the Spandau mystery will never be revealed! Brandon...

07-30-2002, 10:25 PM	#7
max2cam User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If I understand this correctly, the rejected parts would have come from DWM or Erfurt and when (if) assembled at Spandau, they would have been largely hand-fitted off to the side and little if any "special" equipment would have been needed (or kept track of later). Just a shot in the dark -- I have no opinion on the supposed Spandau Lugers one way or the other (but only that the names spoken together sounds very cool).

07-30-2002, 11:48 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Brandon, You might want to give Bob Simpson a call at their Galesburg. IL shop. Bob has a Spandau for consignment sale (I think for $ 15K or so...). Maybe Bob or the gun's owner can give you more info. Pete...

07-31-2002, 12:06 AM	#9
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pete, Check your private messages please... <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> Thanks, Brandon