Hand Me Down ID

[Sparkfire7]

Hey there! Happy to be here, I have been having trouble identifying a gun my father in law left me. It was his fathers gun and I have only gotten as far as identifying it as a DWM with an N and a crown symbol. Maybe the experts here can give me some more info and possibly a date?

[gunbugs]

What we call a "parts gun". Made up out of at least 3 different guns. The serial number on the frame, 7604g, is the serial number. The toggle train is numbered "13" and should be "04". The sideplate is numbered "28" and should be "04" as well. The gun has been heavily polished and reblued. As there is no date over the chamber, it appears to be a mix of pre WW2 commercial parts, except for the sideplate, which is numbered in the Military style, on the face instead of the bottom edge. The receiver has the commercial Crown/N proof. "Shooter grade" as opposed to "collector grade".

[gunnertwo]

Always good to hand down family items. That being said, you appear to have a mismatched and refinished Luger with commercial and military parts. What is the caliber, 7.65 or 9mm?

G2

[Sparkfire7]

Originally Posted by gunbugs

What we call a "parts gun". Made up out of at least 3 different guns. The serial number on the frame, 7604g, is the serial number. The toggle train is numbered "13" and should be "04". The sideplate is numbered "28" and should be "04" as well. The gun has been heavily polished and reblued. As there is no date over the chamber, it appears to be a mix of pre WW2 commercial parts, except for the sideplate, which is numbered in the Military style, on the face instead of the bottom edge. The receiver has the commercial Crown/N proof. "Shooter grade" as opposed to "collector grade".

Wow, this is excellent information thank you. I was wondering why the gun was in really good condition physically and why none of the numbers seemed related. So I suspect all of these things hurt the value significantly? I am not concerned with the value, just curious. I will definitely be keeping it as its an amazing looking gun and only the second pistol I have held that I enjoy holding. So there is no way to tell the exact date of the frame? Shooter grade is worse or better? How would I know if its worthy to fire?

[Sparkfire7]

Originally Posted by gunnertwo

Always good to hand down family items. That being said, you appear to have a mismatched and refinished Luger with commercial and military parts. What is the caliber, 7.65 or 9mm?

G2

Yes that concurs with the other reply on the post, which makes sense as why its in physically good condition. I have no idea what caliber it is. I THINK its 7.65 but I don't actually have any 9mm bullets to test, I suppose I could just measure the barrel ID with a micrometer.

EDIT, from what I can tell, the ID at the end of the barrel is 9mm IF my cheapo Neiko micrometer is correct.

[jeb111]

You can easily check to see what caliber your pistol is by putting a pencil down the barrel if it is really loose then it’s a 9mm if it is more snug then it’s a 30 cal. As a shooter you’ll be able to take it out and use it without worrying about breaking a numbered part which would be detrimental on a matching number pistol. Most collectors have a shooter to use guilt free. Good shooters are worth $1000 give or take. Enjoy that pistol and welcome to the forum!
Jim

[Mac Cat]

Welcome and thanks for sharing your Luger with us.

You have some priceless provenance that makes it worth keeping.

It's not collectable, but it's still a handsome pistol - of course, I've never seen a luger that I wasn't interested in !

The resoration evidence is very obvious in your photos - the heavy brush or sander marks. All the sharp edges along the top are rounded out and smooth. Then it was refinished (re-blued).

It looks like the frame was a 1920 era commercial luger, to me.
I can't tell much from the unmarked magazine, but I think it was a later version.

Look on the front of the frame and under the barrel, as well as the right side of the frame for more markings.

They didn't always have all the military stamps and markings, but look around inside. Some of the commercial lugers were converted from military versions, so they would have the numbered small parts.

You can get to the firing pin pretty easily.

[Sparkfire7]

Originally Posted by jeb111

You can easily check to see what caliber your pistol is by putting a pencil down the barrel if it is really loose then it’s a 9mm if it is more snug then it’s a 30 cal. As a shooter you’ll be able to take it out and use it without worrying about breaking a numbered part which would be detrimental on a matching number pistol. Most collectors have a shooter to use guilt free. Good shooters are worth $1000 give or take. Enjoy that pistol and welcome to the forum!
Jim

Thanks thats good to know!

[Sparkfire7]

Originally Posted by jeb111

You can easily check to see what caliber your pistol is by putting a pencil down the barrel if it is really loose then it’s a 9mm if it is more snug then it’s a 30 cal. As a shooter you’ll be able to take it out and use it without worrying about breaking a numbered part which would be detrimental on a matching number pistol. Most collectors have a shooter to use guilt free. Good shooters are worth $1000 give or take. Enjoy that pistol and welcome to the forum!
Jim

Originally Posted by Mac Cat

Welcome and thanks for sharing your Luger with us.

You have some priceless provenance that makes it worth keeping.

It's not collectable, but it's still a handsome pistol - of course, I've never seen a luger that I wasn't interested in !

The resoration evidence is very obvious in your photos - the heavy brush or sander marks. All the sharp edges along the top are rounded out and smooth. Then it was refinished (re-blued).

It looks like the frame was a 1920 era commercial luger, to me.
I can't tell much from the unmarked magazine, but I think it was a later version.

Look on the front of the frame and under the barrel, as well as the right side of the frame for more markings.

They didn't always have all the military stamps and markings, but look around inside. Some of the commercial lugers were covered from military versions, so they would have the numbered small parts.

You can get to the firing pin pretty easily.

More good info thanks so much, when I find some time I will be sure to do this.

[tomaustin]

enjoy it...grab some ammo and hit the shooting range.............

[spangy]

The crown/n indicates this gun was made for the commercial market and most were made in the 1920's pre WW2 Weir-mar era.

You have given us lots of nice pics but sadly the more important areas you have not shown us.
Specifically the underside of the gun where the barrel meets the receiver.

If you see an 8.8# (ie: 8.82 - 8.88) then you have a 9mm barrel.
If you see a 7.65 then you have a 30 cal barrel or 7.65mm
On very early Lugers like the 1900 above it gets crazy.
If you find a 172,28 that is the amount of lead balls, the same size as the bore, it takes to equal one pound (Europeans use commas not decimals) then you have a 30 cal barrel or 7.65mm. This is the old European method of measuring the bore. The Luger would also be 'BUG' proofed as seen above.

Clear as mud ?? I thought so.
At any rate I love your Luger even if it is a Heinz 57 mismatched, refinished, over polished example ... it has a certain charm only shooter grade guns achieve but that's not a bad thing. Enjoy it, learn from it but most importantly have fun ya ??

[Sparkfire7]

Originally Posted by tomaustin

enjoy it...grab some ammo and hit the shooting range.............

Haha don’t worry I plan to!

[Sparkfire7]

Originally Posted by spangy

The crown/n indicates this gun was made for the commercial market and most were made in the 1920's pre WW2 Weir-mar era.

You have given us lots of nice pics but sadly the more important areas you have not shown us.
Specifically the underside of the gun where the barrel meets the receiver.
Attachment 85882
If you see an 8.8# (ie: 8.82 - 8.88) then you have a 9mm barrel.
If you see a 7.65 then you have a 30 cal barrel or 7.65mm
On very early Lugers like the 1900 above it gets crazy.
If you find a 172,28 that is the amount of lead balls, the same size as the bore, it takes to equal one pound (Europeans use commas not decimals) then you have a 30 cal barrel or 7.65mm. This is the old European method of measuring the bore. The Luger would also be 'BUG' proofed as seen above.

Clear as mud ?? I thought so.
At any rate I love your Luger even if it is a Heinz 57 mismatched, refinished, over polished example ... it has a certain charm only shooter grade guns achieve but that's not a bad thing. Enjoy it, learn from it but most importantly have fun ya ??

I feel the same way and when I am back in town I will take a look at those areas! Ya, I mean just the fact that it has made its way to me is amazing and that so many other people have tinkered with it is kinda cool. It also looks incredible so there is that, too.

[spangy]

Fair warning Sparkfire ... Luger's are like potato chips ... it's hard to stop at just one

[ithacaartist]

Kaleb,

Your Luger will be a nice shooter that will turn the heads of others. Its fairly brutal refinishing neglected to give proper treatment to the small parts that would have originally been strawed. It's a process that's not very difficult to accomplish if you have a toaster oven, and will really make the pistol pop visually as well as adding a feature that would be period correct.