A few questions about my new luger

[Crotalus]

Hi, I'm new to the forum. I just wanted to post some pics of a 1918 DWM Luger I just purchased. The proofs on the right side would indicate that it was military issue, there is a crown N above the chamber on the left which I assume means that it is Nitrogen based as opposed to black powder, but there is also a letter N with a circle around it on the front sight (I wasnt able to photograph that), is that something else?

The visible serial numbers all match, I haven't taken the pistol apart to look at some of the inside serial numbers. There is a 44 stamped inside one of the grips at least, I couldnt find one on the other which looks identical in age and wear, it may have worn off? Also, there is a suffix after the serial number under the barrel and above the trigger gaurd but no suffix is present on the front left side of the frame. Is this normal? Here are some pictures, let me know what you think about the pistol and what you think needs to be done to it if anything.

These two pictures are from when I first obtained it prior to any cleaning or oiling:




These pictures are from after I cleaned it up a bit and filled in the markers with Buff n' Rub (or was that Rub n' Buff?)





Oh and one last question, the magazine only seems to hold the toggle open some of the time and the two replacements I bought from numrich either didnt drop out without pushing a finger down the chamber (on the aftermarket one) or seemed too big to slide in smoothly and had pins sticking out which prevented it from sliding all the way into the frame (a WWII Finish made magazine). The magazine it came with is pictured next to the pistol in the second picture and has a broken takedown mechanism, and wont allow the toggle to be held open. What kind of magazine would fit this pistol?

[Crotalus]

I couldnt find an edit feature but here is one more picture:

[John Sabato]

the holdopen is actually operated by contact with the spring loaded mag button. Make sure there is adequate clearance under the right grip for this to take place. If you remove the top assembly, you should be able to see the mag button press against and raise the holdopen device... try doing this without the right grip attached to see if there is any difference in reliability... aftermarket magazines are not necessarily manufactured to operate the holdopen reliably... the best magazines are the extruded FXO type or the east german clones of the original mags...

Mec-gar mags are the best aftermarket mags...

If the pins in your existing magazines do not stay put well enough to allow unfettered insertion, I would only use them on the range if there are not any known good ones... the finnish mag has probably seen it's better days...

[Dwight Gruber]

Crotalus,

Looks like your pistol cleaned up pretty nicely.

The serial number without suffix is proper for the left receiver.

The c/N on the breechblock indicates proofing for Nitro powder. This is a civilian proof mark, one would expect the proof on this pistol to be an eagle, similar to the one at the right of the receiver proofs or atop the barrel. When you take this gun apart, look for a serial number directly below the c/N on the breechblock.

--Dwight

[Crotalus]

That is what I was thinking was so odd. The proofs on the right front of the frame and the eagle on the barrel would indicate that it was a military issue according to the proof gallery on this site while it has the crown N to the left of the mechanism on the top and on the front of the site. Why would this be?

[Aaron]

Rub'n Buff does a nice job of filling in markings, but you should use white instead of gold. The object is to enhance the visibility of the markings, not to prettify the pistol. It comes in standard white and antique white. Use the standard white to fill in lettering, and the antique white to restore original painted markings such as "Gesichert" on Lugers and the "S" (safe) marking on P38s.

[Dwight Gruber]

Crotalus,

The mark on the front sight is a worker's mark--something like a production-line inspection stamp--and has no relationship to the c/N proof on the breechblock. The c/N suggests that the breechblock may be a post-war replacement, which is why I mentioned looking for the serial number. When you do that, also check the serial number on the firing pin.

--Dwight

[Crotalus]

Thanks for all the input everyone, whenI have time I will look for those other SN's. Oh and the hobby store only had leaf gold, antique gold, and some sort of antique green colored rub n' buff. I ended up doing some searching on this forum and ordered a white and gold laquer stick from Brownells as many of you seem to love them so. Although I would have to respectfully disagree with your opinion of the gold. I think it looks more natural rather than pretty, the white shows more contrast but kind of sticks out.

Would you say that this luger is in somewhat decent condition, at least from what can be seen on the outside"?

By the way how do people determine the percentage of blue/straw in the gun. I can see that mine has almost no straw left but where do people pull numbers such as 87% blue out of? A hat? Or is there some sort of formula?

Oh, and where can I order these compatable magazines you speak of John?

Again thanks for all the help,
Ken

[Dwight Gruber]

Ken,

Superficially your Luger looks to be in pretty nice shape.

Determining the percentage of blue left on a Luger is subjectively and ultimately a crapshoot. The only systematic method is the photographic firearms grading system developed and used in Fjestad's Blue Book of Gun Values. This is a cruelly conservative system, designed to be used with the equally unrealistic value determinations which make up the bulk of the guide. Luger collectors generally do not use this system.

The best way to guess at a percentage finish for a Luger is to educate your eye, to look at as many Lugers as you can with percentage descriptions assigned by their various owners, and make a best guess at where yours fits in within the very broad range. In general you will discover that a seller will grade the same gun higher than a buyer, and a new owner will grade his aquisition relatively high.

Also, a percentage grade is only valid for a Luger with its original finish. A reblued Luger's finish is 0%. A refinish can be very easy or very difficult to recognize, there are characterisitcs which generally allow one to make the determination. Your pictures do not include these characteristic areas.

The short answer to your question is, then, the numbers come out "of a hat", but by an educated eye.

Regarding Aaron's comment about restoring the white GESICHERT, be very careful about this. Remnants of the original sealing wax in the marking is one of the indicators of a Luger's original finish. Whitening over these remnants obscures this evidence of originality.

--Dwight

[Crotalus]

Thank you for your answer Dwight,

Originally posted by Dwight Gruber
[B]Also, a percentage grade is only valid for a Luger with its original finish. A reblued Luger's finish is 0%. A refinish can be very easy or very difficult to recognize, there are characterisitcs which generally allow one to make the determination. Your pictures do not include these characteristic areas.

What are these "charactesytic areas"? Ill take some pics.

[Edward Tinker]

close up of the front serial number, close up here and there to let us see it closer. Light blue is much better to use than red, as red makes the bluing color be reddish.

edit is the pencil icon on the lower right of your posting. There is also a FAQ in the new collector part of the forum.

[Dwight Gruber]

Characteristic areas:

Marks on the bottom of the barrel

Pin in the top of the toggle knobs

Inside of the frame

Recoil spring connecting link from rear toggle piece

GESICHERT stamping

Any pitting visible in the gun's surface

--Dwight

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by Edward Tinker
close up of the front serial number, close up here and there to let us see it closer. Light blue is much better to use than red, as red makes the bluing color be reddish.

Ill have to wait until tomorrow after work to get some pics, i cant get enough light right now.