Unit mark fever!!

[Ron Smith]

Ron, Those are great. There is something about the marks that, in my mind, put life and history into these pistols. It's almost like they have a pulse.
Other Ron

[Edward Tinker]

Yes sir, I like to see these guys. Thanks for sharing Ron and Ron

Ed

[Russ]

Ron
Very nice. Check yor P.M.s
Russ

[Steinar]

Good to see so nice Lugers Ron & Ron!
On the top is my latest Luger, a 1918 DWM. Any coments on the markings? "S.B.W.I.R 69 5219." The letters W, I, R and 69 are with X over.

[Ron Smith]

Morgan, The S.B. signifies Berlin police. The 5219 is probably a property number. The W.I.R , could mean Wiesbaden. First. District weapon # 69.
This is just a guess on my part.
The "O" on the other pistol? I believe it could be a Navy mark. Is this a Navy Luger? The best place to ID these is on Still's forum, posted under "Unit Marks" for the appropriate era of the pistol. There are people with more knowledge than I, who could better identify them.
Ron

Ron

[Steinar]

Thanks for the info Ron! Interesting to know that it har been a police Luger.

You are right about the other pistol beeing a Navy Luger. But it's only the frame, the top is from a byf. Think the "O" stands for "Ã??stsee" (east sea) and the number is what boat it was on, first boat #2014, then #96.

[Ron Smith]

The continuing affliction. I got this one yesterday. A 1921 Reichswehr issue. One of the 10,000 issued to the Army. Ser# 9517b.










It is also a rare Cavalry unit marked 1921. 3rd Eskadron/ 8th Reiter Regiment. weapon Nr 66.






http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/21_unit_mark.jpg[/IMG]

[Don M]

Morgan,

The police unit mark on your 1918 DWM is of particular interest to me. I am developing a database of Weimar police marks (over 500 so far) and have run across several similar to yours. Based on the other marks I have examined, I believe your Luger was marked by the Berlin municipal police in three stages:

â?¢ W.I.R 69 â?? I believe this mark was the first applied, before issuance of the 1922 Prussian Interior Ministry marking orders, and represents the West Group, Section I (Charlottenburg), Precinct Main Force (Revierhauptmannschaft), weapon #69 of the Berlin municipal police. I donâ??t know if they were known as Schutzpolizei at that time. As noted in Weimar Lugers, p. 196, the Revierhauptmannschaft units (which I suspect were comparable to the SWAT teams in U.S. police departments today) were created by Prussian Interior Ministry orders in January 1921. This, along with the 1918 date of manufacture on the pistol, is consistent with a pre-1922 orders marking date.

â?¢ S.B.W.I.R 69 â?? I believe the â??S.B.â?�, indicating Schutzpolizei Berlin, was added later to bring the mark into conformance with the 1922 orders. The key to this interpretation is the location and appearance of the â??S.B.â?� In several cases such as yours, it is very near the bottom or heel of the grip strap. In others, it is in a different font, and/or is out of line with the rest of the mark. In other words, it has the appearance of an afterthought.

â?¢ S.B.5219. â?? This mark is in conformance with the marking orders of 1932. At some point between 1922 and 1932, the Berlin Schutzpolizei apparently consolidated the weapons inventory and renumbered the weapons. In several cases, such as yours, the â??S.B.â?� from the second marking was retained, the rest canceled and the new weapon number added. In other cases, the second mark was completely canceled or ground off and a new â??S.B.xxxx.â?� added.

For my database, I would appreciate knowing the serial number of your Luger and whether it has/had sear or magazine safeties.

[maddog350gt]

Ron,

I am having problems with posting a reply, maybe this time it will work. I want to let you know that I have been following your post with a great deal of interest, as I share your enthusiasm for the unit marked guns.

I am particularly interested because you are in Oregon and I am just across the Columbia in Washougal Washington. I do a lot of looking in Oregon as well as the rest of the NW and am suprised you have found that many Weimar Army guns. I have only seen one Weirmar Army marked Luger in the last two to three years and that one was on the internet. I should have bought it but it had been restored and the guy wouldn't own up to it and price it accordingly, so I let it go to someone else. At any rate I am envious of your Weirmar's, great job finding those gems.

Where are you located in Oregon? If you get up to the Portland area we should get together and talk Lugers. Dwight Gruber lives up here someplace in Portland, I see him at most of the Portland shows. We have exchanged information on guns and talked about his research on early commercials. This last show we went around and look at what was in the show but Lugers in general were scarce, no unit marked guns that I recall.
I have bought a few guns in less than ideal condition (read fair to poor) just because they were unit marked. I agree it brings the history of the guns and there travels alive.

Good luck with your collecting and let me know if you are going to be in Portland.

Bob M.

[Ron Smith]

Hi Bob,

I got one at the Reno Show.

I got one on Auction Arms in a fluke deal. I was bidding on an S/42 a guy had. His daughter had posted it for him and put the wrong buy it now price on it. I did the buy it now and he e-mailed me begging me not to hold him to it. He explained that she had mis- understood and the price was way below what he wanted for it. He asked if I was interested in a unit marked Luger instead. And said that he would sell it for the buy it now price of the S/42. I took it since I was just after the S/42 for re-sale. It turned out to be the Reichswehr Artillery unit 1921.

The last one I got from a dealer who watches for them for me. He lets me know when one floats by. I will buy a less than mint gun if the unit mark is interesting to me.

I live in Springfield, across the river from Eugene. On the good side. About 110 miles from Portland. I was just up there for the first time in 10 years, Tuesday. I had to take my Wife up to see a cancer specialist at OHSU. I try to avoid Portland. Too damn many people.

Anyway, that's how I have found them. Just mostly dumb luck.

Ron

[maddog350gt]

Ron,

I heard about your wife's cancer here on the forum, I also heard you had some good new about it. You both have my best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery.

I met another guy from Eugene a couple of years ago who was into Unit marked guns. I bought a restored Navy Luger from him. He was a lawyer in Eugene, I can't recall his name at the moment but I have it written down some where, I'll look for it, maybe you know him.

I have a niece and nephew who live in Eugene and one of my wife's brothers (william Orr) taught Geology at U of O for 30 years or so. I get down that way every once in a while, although compared to you i'm a regular commuter, I must see Eugene at least once a year. I'll let you know the next time I plan a trip down that way.

I wouldn't under value dumb luck when it comes to finding nice Lugers. If it weren't for dumb luck I wouldn't have have the guns I have now, not the better ones anyway. I would say you give that luck a little help by constant vigilance on the net and through your local network. At any rate you have some terrific unit marked guns. Let me know if you ever want to get rid of any of the Weirmar guns, I'll get in the back of the line.

If you plan to make it to Portland again let me know, I'd love to meet you and talk unit markings.

Thanks,
Bob M.

[Ron Smith]

Bob,
Do you ever go into the Baron's Den gunshop and indoor range? The owner is a friend who also keeps his nose in the air for Lugers for me. He told me that there was another fanatic unit mark collector around. I don't recall the name.
A word of advice. If you ever run into a guy who's first name is Silas. Won't mention his last name. Deal at your own risk, and count your fingers before you leave.
And my wife will be fine. We got a great Christmas present. I appreciate the sentiment.
Let me know the next time you are in the area, and we can meet for coffee. And re-write Luger history.

Ron

[Ron Smith]

Sorry wrong forum