Patrick

What happened to Patrick have not seen any of his excellent posts for a long time? Thought he was our resident expert in Europe. May have missed something during one of my extended trips.

[Dok]

Patrick has chosen to align himself with the European community of Luger collectors, and feels that association with the Luger Forum was putting his acceptance by the Europeans at risk. It's unlikely that we will hear from Patrick again.

[HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr]

Even tough i live in Sweden and is Swedish I do not have very much contact with european Luger collectors.

So where is the differnce?


I know that some of the more reputable American dealers have a reputation in Europe for advanced forgery, is it that Patrick is talking about or is it something else?


Best Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

[Dok]

The European collectors I refer to are the German collectors (G�¶rtz et al) who consider themselves above the American collectors, and who had the audacity to perpetrate the hoax that Marvin got sucked into (search the threads if you need to know more on this).


And while I can't comment on the accuracy of the rumours about American collector's, I am personally disgusted by the snobbery I have witnessed in the European group. And this is the group to which Parick wishes to align himself... I wish him the best of luck, and hope they don't turn on him someday because he's not German, which appears to be all they really care about..

[HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr]

As I have lived in Austria for a while I can assure you that I much more prefer Americans to austrians and germans.

Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

[lugerholsterrepair]

Dok, I am somewhat alarmed by this sort of talk on the luger forum. I am under the, impression, that this sort of attitude is misguided at best and at worst a reflection of bad taste. I am in direct contact with many European collectors who have bent over backward to help me in my research at every opportunity that I have imposed apon them for help. To say the things you have said is not only shocking to me but very devisive and certainly cannot bring anything but a bad taste to many people's mouths. I am familiar with the story that you speak of and I believe Herr Gortz wrote this fabulous story purely in jest and could not believe anyone with an ounce of brains would believe a sentence of it.sort of nonsense has to stop.

I have had my share of wrongs done to me over the years with luger people and you have to swallow hard and forgive and forget. Please think over what you are thinking and come to some sort of center on this as I take this sort of inflmatory insulting talk as a personal affront. I know I am new here and what I say may not mean squat, but the people you are calling European snobs are friends.


A very disapointed and saddned American German Luger collector. Jerry Burney

[Thor]

I believe Gortz told our contact with him, he laughed at us that we would believe such a story! Marvin and many of us took personal offense, he basically slapped us in the face with a glove like a challange. I think they did this because they tired of us trying to find information and they didnt like us learning much of the information they want to keep to themselves. They have contributed much in the past, but they dont like people sticking there noise into diggin into information about Lugers, even Patrick said that. We have the lots of Lugers which they are jealous of and they have most of the documentation.

Getting information out of Gortz and Kornmayer has been like pulling teeth and onlythrough the excellent efforts of Herr Marschall have we had any sucess. They dont like us and have told Marschall that, They dislike NAPCA and that is why they dont participate. The words of Patrick included sodamy (spelling) and other insultive words that I didnt care for and being a person insult to Marvin, I wont have anything to do with these people. Sometimes you have to stand my your friends and speak up! I didnt like it then, and I dont like it remembering it now!


Glady commented! Have a nice Day! ~Thor~

[bill m]

I personally feel that the most knowledgeable collectors in the world are here in the US, and it is not necessary to consult everything with the Germans. There is an ego thing involved here though, that certain people are not happy with the answers or opinions given and need to get it personally from the "horses mouth" so to speak. I feel every question asked on this forum can be answered correctly by the members here, but some feel that they have to call and ask the author personally, or investigate everything through German sources. By asking a question and then stating that you have contacted an author, or dealer, or a German source, I feel you're not giving the forum much trust or respect. If people do not trust the answers given, then why do they bother to ask the question here? Funny how a so called "expert source" can write or give totally made up data, and because they said or wrote it, it becomes proper, and then it is defended vigorously. Gives you something to think about doesn't it!

[BILL]

Back to why Patrick doesn't post here anymore: He really wore out his welcome. He took his profile off and deleted his 'Welcome, Patrick' sign. We didn't 'gang up' on him but some people have a warped sense of what is socially acceptable and what isn't. Discrediting someone who has added so much to the hobby is not socially acceptable behavior. If that offends anyone here please accept my apology in advance. As in life, we must accept the responsiblity of our actions. Cruelty in the guise of humor is not acceptable.

sounds like they have something to hide.

[Dok]

Jerry, I take your comments to heart... yes my comments may very well be in bad taste, but that bad taste is the one left in my mouth by what was done in a serious, and mean spirited manner. I have in my possession, G�¶rtz's original letter explaining the hoax and his motivation behind it, non of which is honourable. Bill Munis' comments are correct, I believe that the experts is the US are every bit as good as those elsewhere, and if memory serves me correctly, it was bill m himself who first raised the flag on the hoax posting.


I am not discrediting you Jerry, mearly expressing my opinion, which you are entitled not to agree with. I do not hold any malice towards Patrick, nor have I said any unkind words about him. Patrick did a great deal IMHO to further the Luger Forum and our knowledge of Georg Luger and his life, and for that I will be forever grateful to him.


We all have choices in this life, and one of those choices is who to associate with and whom to call friends. I would not suppose to dictate to you your course of action, my opinions are mine alone, if you happen to agree with me, that is fine, and if you don't, that is also fine, it dosen't make me less right or more wrong. For my choice, I choose not to associate with European Luger snobs until time or circumstance should alter that view.


Dok

Lighten up guys. I can appreciate Goertz's sense of humor, after being on the pitard of "Poison Pen Howard" from NAPCA a couple of times. Remember what happened to him. As a matter of National pride, it is probably difficult for us Auslanders (Foreigners) to understand the feelings of the "older generation" of Germans, when they read the history that WE HAVE WRITTEN of WW2 or the hollywood creations such as ENEMY AT THE GATE & BAND OF BROTHERS, where they are the bad guys.