10010b - Page 2

Imperial Arms · 06-06-2007, 06:09 PM

Ron,

Here in an image showing the serial number.

The individual numbers of serial numbers (and characters) are not allows stamped perfectly right and the B-suffix does not appear suspicious to me. The so called 'halo' on this pistol does not follow the characteristics of natural halos I have observed on other Lugers.

One detail which I am not 100% sure is whether the B-suffix was stamped after the serial number or below the serial number - I guess under the serial number. Maybe you can refresh my mind regarding this method. I know that the the presentation carbines in the 9100 serial range have the number stamped as 9102C along the forearm tang.

Albert

Pete Ebbink · 06-06-2007, 10:18 PM

Ron Wood · 06-06-2007, 10:22 PM

The "B" is in the appropriate position under the serial number. I agree that the "halo" is not the result of stamping but may be from wear or contact with something that removed the blue. I still am not totally comfortable with the slant of the "B" but am willing to accept it at face value. It appears to be a legitimate rare Luger and the condition attests to the hardships of ranch life. I am perplexed by the presence of the "B" suffix since this is obviously one of the elusive 7" Commercial pushbutton stock Lugers, but there is an awful lot about early Lugers that I freely admit I do not know. Maybe if I live another 50 years I will be a little better informed

.

Pete Ebbink · 06-06-2007, 10:23 PM

One Shattuck has for sale :

Pete Ebbink · 06-06-2007, 10:29 PM

I played around with the B to see more detail :

BTW...is the seemingly larger size of the "10" on the bottom edge of the TD lever "normal" ?

I noticed on # 10023B the "23" is pretty small on the TD lever. Then on # 10158B, there are no numbers on the TD lever.

LugerVern · 06-07-2007, 12:16 AM

I would have to agree with Albert that the B is original to the gun, or at least was applied very early in the life of the gun. If you look closely you will see some damage at the top left, this has occurred after the B was applied.

The serial numbers on the take down lever were applied with different stamps, if you look at the base of the 1 on the take down lever you see some flaring not present on the frame numbers. This is not necessarily a problem; the only way to check is to compare them to the stampings on the rest of the gun.

I have one concern however:

The zeros on the frame serial number are flat top and you would expect to see rounded ones, I would like to compare them to the serial numbers on the barrel. Could we get one more picture please of the barrel serial numbers?

I also have a question on safety levers, is this the normal style for such an early luger? This is mostly for my knowledge and not a criticism?

Interesting gun!

Vern

waffenrec · 06-07-2007, 12:21 AM

Hi Vern, here is the pic you ask.
Regards
Adrian

Dwight Gruber · 06-07-2007, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LugerVern
I also have a question on safety levers, is this the normal style for such an early luger? This is mostly for my knowledge and not a criticism?

Vern

Vern,

If this Luger is part of the commercial numbering series (implying that the B was added later), the thumb safety lever would be expected to be type-2, although it is within approximately 200 guns from the changeover to type-3. The grip safety width is not diagnostic, as this number falls within the empty data range of the changeover from narrow to wide grip safeties.

As Albert notes, there are non-standard barrel lengths reported on Lugers near this sample.

--Dwight

Pete Ebbink · 06-08-2007, 12:46 AM

LugerVern · 06-10-2007, 08:46 AM

I think the serial numbers are fine, the one on the take down lever was struck at an angle and then perhaps struck again, this caused the flaring and what looks to us as an enlarged font.

This Ã¢??BÃ¢?Â is driving me crazy; does anyone else think they have seen such a Ã¢??BÃ¢?Â before?
Maybe I have been looking at proof marks to long, but I am almost certain that I have. Could it be that we are missing a simple identification? We know itÃ¢??s not a prototype Ã¢??BÃ¢?Â, are there any other simple straight foreword explanations, I am going to keep looking.

Nice Unique Gun!

Vern

06-06-2007, 10:22 PM	#23
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	The "B" is in the appropriate position under the serial number. I agree that the "halo" is not the result of stamping but may be from wear or contact with something that removed the blue. I still am not totally comfortable with the slant of the "B" but am willing to accept it at face value. It appears to be a legitimate rare Luger and the condition attests to the hardships of ranch life. I am perplexed by the presence of the "B" suffix since this is obviously one of the elusive 7" Commercial pushbutton stock Lugers, but there is an awful lot about early Lugers that I freely admit I do not know. Maybe if I live another 50 years I will be a little better informed . __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-07-2007, 12:21 AM	#27
waffenrec User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Buenos Aires Argentina Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	10010B Hi Vern, here is the pic you ask. Regards Adrian Attached Thumbnails

06-06-2007, 06:09 PM	#21
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Ron, Here in an image showing the serial number. The individual numbers of serial numbers (and characters) are not allows stamped perfectly right and the B-suffix does not appear suspicious to me. The so called 'halo' on this pistol does not follow the characteristics of natural halos I have observed on other Lugers. One detail which I am not 100% sure is whether the B-suffix was stamped after the serial number or below the serial number - I guess under the serial number. Maybe you can refresh my mind regarding this method. I know that the the presentation carbines in the 9100 serial range have the number stamped as 9102C along the forearm tang. Albert

06-06-2007, 10:18 PM	#22
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

06-06-2007, 10:23 PM	#24
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	One Shattuck has for sale :

06-06-2007, 10:29 PM	#25
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I played around with the B to see more detail : BTW...is the seemingly larger size of the "10" on the bottom edge of the TD lever "normal" ? I noticed on # 10023B the "23" is pretty small on the TD lever. Then on # 10158B, there are no numbers on the TD lever.

06-07-2007, 12:16 AM	#26
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	I would have to agree with Albert that the B is original to the gun, or at least was applied very early in the life of the gun. If you look closely you will see some damage at the top left, this has occurred after the B was applied. The serial numbers on the take down lever were applied with different stamps, if you look at the base of the 1 on the take down lever you see some flaring not present on the frame numbers. This is not necessarily a problem; the only way to check is to compare them to the stampings on the rest of the gun. I have one concern however: The zeros on the frame serial number are flat top and you would expect to see rounded ones, I would like to compare them to the serial numbers on the barrel. Could we get one more picture please of the barrel serial numbers? I also have a question on safety levers, is this the normal style for such an early luger? This is mostly for my knowledge and not a criticism? Interesting gun! Vern

06-08-2007, 12:46 AM	#29
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

06-10-2007, 08:46 AM	#30
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	I think the serial numbers are fine, the one on the take down lever was struck at an angle and then perhaps struck again, this caused the flaring and what looks to us as an enlarged font. This Ã¢??BÃ¢?Â is driving me crazy; does anyone else think they have seen such a Ã¢??BÃ¢?Â before? Maybe I have been looking at proof marks to long, but I am almost certain that I have. Could it be that we are missing a simple identification? We know itÃ¢??s not a prototype Ã¢??BÃ¢?Â, are there any other simple straight foreword explanations, I am going to keep looking. Nice Unique Gun! Vern