Help identify this Luger please?

[para645]

Hello all. I found this site trying to research this pistol, so I figured I'd just ask the experts! My uncle has had this Luger for many years and asked me to help him sell it. From what I can tell, it is an old model P08. The bore is too small for 9mm, so I assume .30 Luger . The only markings are the serial number 844xx (all numbers), and an "N" under crown proof on the side of the receiver and side of the forward toggle link. It has the last 2 digits of the serial number on several parts as well. Barrel measures 6.75". Wood grip and wood bottom on the magazine. Anyone know what the year of manufacture is? Value? Thanks for any input.

[RylanBrissette]

All I can say is I believe the "N" proof mark is a commercial Nitro proof mark. Would this be a Navy Luger? I don't know much about these, but someone on this site should be able to give you some good info.

[Edward Tinker]

It is most likely a 1920's, early 1930's commercial luger in 30 caliber, they could be had in almost any length barrel.

There most likely is a "germany" stamp on it?


I would guess $800-$1000 for it.

Pictures, top, both sides, etc could help, but I am pretty sure I am right


Ed

[LugerVern]

Unusual barrel, I donâ??t see a flange so not a standard commercial.
Are there any other markings on the gun, Initials PAC on right side for example?

I have read where rifle barrels were sometimes cut down and threaded for use on Lugers, this maybe what we are looking at, but I am really guessing, caliber is most likely 30 but is not certain.

I would like to see more pictures of the barrel flange area, front of bore, right side.
Any markings on bottom of barrel?

Vern

[Dwight Gruber]

Scott,

Welcome to the Forum. The barrel is not original, and the blued small parts means the gun has been refinished.

It will be useful to know the full serial number; presence or absence of GERMANY and its location; if the area under the safety lever says SAFE or GESICHERT; if the marking on the side of the extractor says LOADED or GELADEN.

Thanks much for the additional details.

--Dwight

[para645]

Thanks for all the replies. The safety lever says "GESICHERT". There is no "GERMANY" or any other markings on the top, sides, or barrel. The serial number is 84452. There is a 52 stamped on the trigger plate, rear toggle link, and locking bolt. I dont see any bluing or refinished parts. Heres a couple more pics.

[para645]

right side

[para645]

proofs

[para645]

last one

[para645]

The side of the extractor does say "GELADEN".

[Dwight Gruber]

Scott,

Thanks very much for the additional information. It is very hard to tell from your photogrphs, are the trigger, takedown lever, magazine relesase, and thumb safety lever blued, or straw-colored?

It does appear that the DWM logo on the toggle has been ground off.

--Dwight

[Dwight Gruber]

Originally posted by tacfoley
The take-down latch shows traces of straw, but it is the side-plate that intrigues me most. I have never seen one quite so rounded on the contours, especially the top left corner, as this one appears to be.

Terry,

Thanks for the photo analysis.

I've actually run into the sideplate situation a number of times. I asked the question of Ted Green (Thor) long ago about sideplates, particularly about the fact that their blue seems to "age" and brown at a much different rate from the rest of the gun. He informed me that sideplates are made from a much milder steel than the rest of the gun, and they "take" blue much differently. From this I have deduced that the sideplate steel itself ages and wears faster and more heavily than the rest of the gun, as well.

--Dwight

[para645]

It does appear that the DWM logo on the toggle has been ground off.

--Dwight

I don't see that. I've been reading the information pages and looking at the various logos.. Could it be a Krieghoff? No markings on the top, c/N proof, serial number is in that range.. Maybe??

I don't understand the "straw" coloring, I'll have to look for some examples to get a better idea.

[Edward Tinker]

no, not a krieghoff, all krieghoffs were marked on the toggle that I know of and krieghoff only made around 13,000 lugers, so your serial number is way to high.

Strawing was originally on most lugers; the trigger, safety lever and other small parts were not blued. They will appear lighter, almost like it has worn bluing, but is in fact, made orginally that way.


See how the trigger and other small parts are not blued looking




Ed

[Lugerdoc]

Your serial number would place this luger as a 1919 Commerical (some books call it a M1923) made soon after WW1 by DWM for export mainly to the US with 7.65x95 or 98mm long barrels. The importers, Stoeger and Pacific arms would then change the barrel to whichever caliber (7.65 or 9mm) and barrel length the customer wanted. TH

[para645]

Dwight,

I looked at the toggle and think you are right on. If I hold it just right under the light I can see evidence of the script from the DWM logo.

As far as the straw, its too hard for me to tell. The coloring is pretty consistent throughout. The safety lever is dark and appears blued, otherwise very little bluing if any with some pitting as you can see. The barrel looks good, strong rifling. Function is good too. Nice and tight. Needs a good cleaning though.

Lugerdoc,
Now theres a definate answer! Thank you.

I hate selling anything without knowing what it is. So whats a fair value?

Thank you all for your input.
Scott

[John Sabato]

Another give away on the ground rear toggle flat surface is the elimination of the graceful bevels on either side of the top edges which keep the part from being sharp... if these chamfers are thin or non-existant, the toggle has been ground flat to eliminate the manufacturer's mark.

The barrel looks to me like a portion of a surplus .30 caliber rifle barrel that has been fitted to the Luger and rechambered. The tapers are all wrong, and the front sight base arrangement is not factory... looks like it was slipped over the end of the .30 caliber barrel and soldered into place. A common practice for custom gunsmith Luger barrel replacement.

Your barrel dimension must be only the exposed part. You should measure the barrel by inserting a cleaning rod until it touches the breechface and then measure the cleaning rod that fit inside the barrel. Looks at least 7 inches from the photos and probably eight...

[para645]

6 5/8" from tip to breech face.

[Lugerdoc]

Not the normal length for a German made luger barrel, so probably a gunsmith replacement as John suggested. TH