WWII British & French "Souvenir" Regulations

Don M · 07-13-2006, 07:04 PM

In collecting and researching Prussian Schupo unit markings, I have noticed a decided lack of data from the Prussian governmental districts lying generally north of the Ruhr and west of the Elbe. While this area generally had fewer large cities than in other parts of Germany, I would have expected more examples than I have based on data from other areas. My WWII maps indicate that this region was invaded principally by British forces. I know that current British gun ownership laws are draconian and wonder if this was the case in 1945 and if British troops were much more restricted in their acquisition of "trophies" than their US cousins. I would appreciate any observations about this.

Don M · 07-13-2006, 08:24 PM

tac,

My sincerest apologies to the descendants of Uncle Geoff and all other Canadians. The maps I consulted suggested that the Canadians liberated The Netherlands, west of the Ems. Looking forward to learning more.

Heinz · 07-13-2006, 08:54 PM

Ig, before Tac reaches for the keyboard please assure him that Don's use of "invaders" for the English and "liberators" for the Canadians is just typical American imprecise use of the King's English and I am sure no unflattering implication was meant.

Don M · 07-13-2006, 10:50 PM

How about "conquerers?"

Don M · 07-14-2006, 11:17 AM

tac,

Thank you very much for the thorough explanation as well as the lesson on use of the Queen's English (you too, Heinz, for the latter). I will proceed to my dictionary posthaste for the proper term for the movement of foreign troops into a country to free its citizens from a maniacal dictator. Perhaps newspaper accounts from about three years ago will give me a clue.

It sounds like gun ownership in the UK was not much easier in 1945 than today. My sympathies to all affected.

policeluger · 07-14-2006, 12:04 PM

I love the tails tac, but you spelled labor wrong

....best to ya

Don M · 07-14-2006, 07:43 PM

tac, I'll leave you out of it. Thanks again for the info and best of luck with your Japanese keyboard. It's definitely entertaining!

Don M · 07-15-2006, 09:59 AM

To extend this discussion a bit further, I have also noticed that there are few examples of police unit markings from the Trier, Koblenz and western part of the Wiesbaden districts. This region was in the French Zone following WWII. Can anyone comment on the collecting habits of French forces at the end of WWII?

unspellable · 07-18-2006, 09:59 AM

I have heard stories of Tommies acquiring German hand guns during the war only to hear an announcement on board ship while crossing the channel for home that there would be severe repercussions for any one found with a hand gun on returning to the UK. Whereupon a great number of such hand guns found their way over the rail and to the bottom.

unspellable · 07-20-2006, 05:45 PM

BTW: Tommy Atkins was a Welshman who served as a private in the American revolutionary War. Around 1830 some general picked his name as an example for pay forms. Thus, his immortality was assured.

Dwight Gruber · 11-21-2007, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don M
To extend this discussion a bit further, I have also noticed that there are few examples of police unit markings from the Trier, Koblenz and western part of the Wiesbaden districts. This region was in the French Zone following WWII. Can anyone comment on the collecting habits of French forces at the end of WWII?

Don,

I was looking through some back posts and ran into this. You may have come up with the info in the succeeding months, but in case you haven't--the French collected up P-08 and P-38 and used them as their service pistol, so they would not have entered the hands of citizen/collectors.

A good question would be, what happened to all these guns when they went out of French service??

--Dwight

Don M · 11-21-2007, 10:33 AM

Dwight,

I have pretty well established that the Americans and Canadians were the souvenir collectors. You pose a good question about the French.

davidkachel · 11-24-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Don M
Dwight,

I have pretty well established that the Americans and Canadians were the souvenir collectors. You pose a good question about the French.

It would seem pointless for the French to pick them up just to throw them down again!

(OK, just kidding, don't flame me.)

davidkachel · 11-24-2007, 11:54 AM

Every time tac relates one of his British gun law stories it sends a chill up my spine.
Is there a word more severe than "draconian"?

07-13-2006, 07:04 PM	#1
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	WWII British & French "Souvenir" Regulations In collecting and researching Prussian Schupo unit markings, I have noticed a decided lack of data from the Prussian governmental districts lying generally north of the Ruhr and west of the Elbe. While this area generally had fewer large cities than in other parts of Germany, I would have expected more examples than I have based on data from other areas. My WWII maps indicate that this region was invaded principally by British forces. I know that current British gun ownership laws are draconian and wonder if this was the case in 1945 and if British troops were much more restricted in their acquisition of "trophies" than their US cousins. I would appreciate any observations about this. __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

07-13-2006, 08:24 PM	#2
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	tac, My sincerest apologies to the descendants of Uncle Geoff and all other Canadians. The maps I consulted suggested that the Canadians liberated The Netherlands, west of the Ems. Looking forward to learning more. __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

07-13-2006, 10:50 PM	#4
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	How about "conquerers?" __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

07-14-2006, 11:17 AM	#5
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	tac, Thank you very much for the thorough explanation as well as the lesson on use of the Queen's English (you too, Heinz, for the latter). I will proceed to my dictionary posthaste for the proper term for the movement of foreign troops into a country to free its citizens from a maniacal dictator. Perhaps newspaper accounts from about three years ago will give me a clue. It sounds like gun ownership in the UK was not much easier in 1945 than today. My sympathies to all affected. __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

07-14-2006, 07:43 PM	#7
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	tac, I'll leave you out of it. Thanks again for the info and best of luck with your Japanese keyboard. It's definitely entertaining! __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

07-13-2006, 08:54 PM	#3
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Ig, before Tac reaches for the keyboard please assure him that Don's use of "invaders" for the English and "liberators" for the Canadians is just typical American imprecise use of the King's English and I am sure no unflattering implication was meant.

07-14-2006, 12:04 PM	#6
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I love the tails tac, but you spelled labor wrong ....best to ya

07-15-2006, 09:59 AM	#8
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	To extend this discussion a bit further, I have also noticed that there are few examples of police unit markings from the Trier, Koblenz and western part of the Wiesbaden districts. This region was in the French Zone following WWII. Can anyone comment on the collecting habits of French forces at the end of WWII? __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

07-18-2006, 09:59 AM	#9
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	I have heard stories of Tommies acquiring German hand guns during the war only to hear an announcement on board ship while crossing the channel for home that there would be severe repercussions for any one found with a hand gun on returning to the UK. Whereupon a great number of such hand guns found their way over the rail and to the bottom.

07-20-2006, 05:45 PM	#10
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	BTW: Tommy Atkins was a Welshman who served as a private in the American revolutionary War. Around 1830 some general picked his name as an example for pay forms. Thus, his immortality was assured.

11-21-2007, 10:33 AM	#12
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Dwight, I have pretty well established that the Americans and Canadians were the souvenir collectors. You pose a good question about the French. __________________ Regards, Don [email protected] Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

11-24-2007, 11:54 AM	#14
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Every time tac relates one of his British gun law stories it sends a chill up my spine. Is there a word more severe than "draconian"? __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.