1923 DWM/Krieghoff Commercial

StarOfTheWest · 01-11-2008, 04:08 PM

Serial 6674i
This is a seldom seen Krieghoff variation, and certainly a very early one.

The back frame of this gun is stamped Krieghoff, and the stamp appears odd. However, there is provenance of another struck exactly the same in an old Luger reference book, so I am inclined to believe that the stamp was in some way damaged when these guns were marked, and that the gun is correct.
A forger would have done a much better job.
Considerable halo-ing is seen around the Krieghoff Suhl stamp.

Caliber 7.65 Luger.
Stamped DWM on the toggle, vertical C/N on the left side frame, and C/N sideways on the breechblock.
C/N on underside of barrel, commercial style numbering on gun.
Marked Germany on right side of upper frame just behind barrel.
Plain wood bottom mag.

wlyon · 01-11-2008, 04:54 PM

These were not made by Krieghoff. They bought them from DWM and placed their stamp on them. The second f is always defective. This varies as can be seen in Randall Gibsons Krieghoff book. They are all in the i serial suffix. I sold one of these a few months ago. Nice pictures,keep them coming. Bill

Navy · 01-11-2008, 05:12 PM

I was fortunate enough to acquire an un-dated but obviously pre-war Krieghoff catalogue and pricelist. On the order form in the back of the catalogue it lists Automatische pistolen, among them, Parabellums Kal 7.65MM for RM58. This clearly establishes that Krieghoff sold them; I have been unable to find any data that proces Krieghoff did overhauls or any other work on DWM pistols.

Tom A

Dwight Gruber · 01-11-2008, 06:23 PM

Anna,

Another gun already in the database, this one from Gibson's book. Glad to know the proof details, could you tell me if this one is GERMANY marked?

Thanks much.

--Dwight

StarOfTheWest · 01-11-2008, 06:46 PM

Marked Germany on right side of upper frame just behind barrel.

Dwight Gruber · 01-11-2008, 06:50 PM

Not to be too picky, but--frame or receiver?

--Dwight

StarOfTheWest · 01-11-2008, 10:47 PM

It is marked on the upper half, the receiver, just behind where the barrel joins, and on the right hand side.
Sorry to be unclear, I can see how what I wrote could have been ambiguous.

Ron Wood · 01-12-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

I have been unable to find any data that proces [sic] Krieghoff did overhauls or any other work on DWM pistols

Tom,
Since this Luger is textbook DWM, are you maintaining that the back frame marking is only for sales/distribution and that Krieghoff received completed guns to sell and had no hand in their construction or assembly?

Navy · 01-12-2008, 09:23 PM

Ron,

I am not maintaining anything as I have no documentation on any DWM guns sold by Krieghoff other than the catalogue I mentioned. I have an almost exact dupilcate of the pistol displayed earlier in this thread, to include the bad die marks, but what it all means , well, I am uncertain.

As we know, Simpson had the Reichswehr contract for refurbishment; could there have been a parallel., private Krieghoff program that took guns that were "Gone to PDO" and Krieghoff bought them, re-hashed them and then retailed them? BTFOOM! Who knows?

I have no theory, yet I have 20...all of which are pure speculation. One of the joys of this obsession we have.

Tom A

01-11-2008, 04:08 PM	#1
StarOfTheWest User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: East Texas, CSA Posts: 208 Thanks: 81 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts	1923 DWM/Krieghoff Commercial Serial 6674i This is a seldom seen Krieghoff variation, and certainly a very early one. The back frame of this gun is stamped Krieghoff, and the stamp appears odd. However, there is provenance of another struck exactly the same in an old Luger reference book, so I am inclined to believe that the stamp was in some way damaged when these guns were marked, and that the gun is correct. A forger would have done a much better job. Considerable halo-ing is seen around the Krieghoff Suhl stamp. Caliber 7.65 Luger. Stamped DWM on the toggle, vertical C/N on the left side frame, and C/N sideways on the breechblock. C/N on underside of barrel, commercial style numbering on gun. Marked Germany on right side of upper frame just behind barrel. Plain wood bottom mag. __________________ Sorry, I take that back. I have no problem with the horse you rode in on.

01-11-2008, 04:54 PM	#2
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,561 Times in 956 Posts	These were not made by Krieghoff. They bought them from DWM and placed their stamp on them. The second f is always defective. This varies as can be seen in Randall Gibsons Krieghoff book. They are all in the i serial suffix. I sold one of these a few months ago. Nice pictures,keep them coming. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

01-11-2008, 06:46 PM	#5
StarOfTheWest User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: East Texas, CSA Posts: 208 Thanks: 81 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts	Marked Germany on right side of upper frame just behind barrel. __________________ Sorry, I take that back. I have no problem with the horse you rode in on.

01-11-2008, 10:47 PM	#7
StarOfTheWest User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: East Texas, CSA Posts: 208 Thanks: 81 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts	It is marked on the upper half, the receiver, just behind where the barrel joins, and on the right hand side. Sorry to be unclear, I can see how what I wrote could have been ambiguous. __________________ Sorry, I take that back. I have no problem with the horse you rode in on.

01-11-2008, 05:12 PM	#3
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	I was fortunate enough to acquire an un-dated but obviously pre-war Krieghoff catalogue and pricelist. On the order form in the back of the catalogue it lists Automatische pistolen, among them, Parabellums Kal 7.65MM for RM58. This clearly establishes that Krieghoff sold them; I have been unable to find any data that proces Krieghoff did overhauls or any other work on DWM pistols. Tom A

01-11-2008, 06:23 PM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Anna, Another gun already in the database, this one from Gibson's book. Glad to know the proof details, could you tell me if this one is GERMANY marked? Thanks much. --Dwight

01-11-2008, 06:50 PM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Not to be too picky, but--frame or receiver? --Dwight

01-12-2008, 09:23 PM	#9
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Ron, I am not maintaining anything as I have no documentation on any DWM guns sold by Krieghoff other than the catalogue I mentioned. I have an almost exact dupilcate of the pistol displayed earlier in this thread, to include the bad die marks, but what it all means , well, I am uncertain. As we know, Simpson had the Reichswehr contract for refurbishment; could there have been a parallel., private Krieghoff program that took guns that were "Gone to PDO" and Krieghoff bought them, re-hashed them and then retailed them? BTFOOM! Who knows? I have no theory, yet I have 20...all of which are pure speculation. One of the joys of this obsession we have. Tom A