Double Muhlemann Stamping...

Pete Ebbink · 09-14-2005, 09:48 PM

Some photos of my M1906 Cross/Shield DWM-Swiss luger. Made around 1914.

It is somewhat odd/rare that is has the double Col. Muhlemann inspector stamping on the left side of the receiver. Another double is shown in the Bobba book (serial # 15140) and I know of one other for sale here in the USA (serial # 15095).

Gun editor Mr. Roberto Allara in Italy thinks this double stamping happened on only 100-200 guns...for some unknown reason.

Here are some photos :

Pete Ebbink · 09-14-2005, 09:49 PM

Last batch of photos :

wlyon · 09-14-2005, 10:21 PM

Pete Very Very nice !!!!!!!!

Ron Wood · 09-15-2005, 12:21 AM

Beautiful gun Pete. Odd that these double stamped examples show up very near the end of the DWM Swiss production.

Do you know the basis for Mr. Allara's estimate of 100-200 guns so marked? Based on the previous low observed example, 15095, that would make the double stamp only 120 guns from the end of DWM production. Yours is 445 from the end, so that immediately lowers the range from previously observed examples quite a bit.

Pete Ebbink · 09-15-2005, 01:31 PM

Hi Ron,

I really had to discipline myself over these past 2 years and not just buy another nice Cross/Shield. When I first saw the double +/M stamping of # 15140 in the Bobba book, I thought to myself if would be marvelous to be able to add one to my collection...one day. Then in a matter of 2 months, I run across two (2) for sale in the USA...

When I was conversing with Roberto, he knew I was considering buying # 15095 in the USA...at the time he did not know I was also looking at # 14770 (from Simpson's)...

(# 15095 is still for sale, if anyone has interest I can email contact info. and photos the seller sent to me.)

Roberto just estimated the 100-200 range with serials he has seen or that which had been reported to him.

My # 14770 really does push the reported numbers back a bit...I am also pleased it is not import stamped or p-date release stamped.

What I do not know is if the traditional " + and +/M " appeared before the DWM-Swiss M1906 cross/shield production ended or not. That is...did the double +/M remain in effect to the end or did the little cross eventually replace one of the +/M's before the production run ended.

Pete Ebbink · 12-02-2005, 11:50 PM

I think this is another double Muhlemann stamped M1906 Swiss cross/shield luger :

It is currently on the RIA auction, Lot # 1025...luger serial # 14924...

drbuster · 12-03-2005, 10:29 AM

Possibly, Pete. Are you determining this by the pistol's serial number range? I certainly cannot make out the Muhmnann stamps in the photos supplied.

Pete Ebbink · 12-03-2005, 12:31 PM

Doc,

The photo is not quite clear for me to be 100% sure...

But the left most stamping is a single +/M in an oval cartouche...the right hand one is the same size as the other...so I assume it is also a +/M...

The other cross/shield Swiss lugers (prior to 1913 Muhlemann's inspection career beginning) had a single "+" followed by some with a "+" and a "+/V" stamping...I do not think I see a +/V on this luger at RIA...

Its serial number of 14924 places it after mine with 14770 and in line with other double +/M stamped lugers...

I have not seen or have any luger reported with only a single +/M stamping...so it may be that when Muhlemann came on the scene, he used the double stamping exclusively to the end of the cross/shield run and then switched to a single +/M stamping on the '24 Bern lugers...

If anyone is looking for a double stamped +/M luger, it would certainly be worth a call to the RIA folks on the phone...

munky · 12-04-2005, 06:15 PM

First, beautiful piece of work you have. I have recently acquired a luger made by DWM a lot like yours. 1915 is stamped on it, From what I understand this is probably the date it was made. Where can I find out as much as I can about it. I have already researched it and learned a lot but there are a few things I still need to know. Also, where could I buy some 7.65 shells for it?

Pete Ebbink · 12-04-2005, 06:52 PM

Hi Eric,

If you live in the USA, you might try this stuff. Although $ 18.00 per 50-round box is not "cheap" compared to 9 mm ammo, it is less expensive than the $ 25 - 35/box price you see at gun shows when you can find this ammo in .30 luger (aka 7,65 mm).

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=97228

munky · 12-04-2005, 08:29 PM

Thanks Pete.

I do live in the US, Pennsylvania to be exact. Before I order online I'm going to check a few local gun shops. The one I checked didn't have any and I don't think they can.

Thanks again

the gunman · 12-04-2005, 10:35 PM

Pete you sure gotta think about emptying that safe of yours again with some of these clunkers . Richie

Pete Ebbink · 01-22-2008, 11:27 PM

Here is another "Double Muhlemann" stamped M1906 cross/shield for sale in CH with Andrew Zink.

http://www.augustus.ch/

It is in his "Vintage Pistols" section, 2nd. gun offering down. Asking is $ 2430 USD...in case some of our European members might be looking for one.

This gun for sale is SN 14776...only 6 numbers after my SN 14770...

09-14-2005, 09:48 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Double Muhlemann Stamping... Some photos of my M1906 Cross/Shield DWM-Swiss luger. Made around 1914. It is somewhat odd/rare that is has the double Col. Muhlemann inspector stamping on the left side of the receiver. Another double is shown in the Bobba book (serial # 15140) and I know of one other for sale here in the USA (serial # 15095). Gun editor Mr. Roberto Allara in Italy thinks this double stamping happened on only 100-200 guns...for some unknown reason. Here are some photos :

09-14-2005, 10:21 PM	#3
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,561 Times in 956 Posts	Pete Very Very nice !!!!!!!! __________________ Bill Lyon

09-15-2005, 12:21 AM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Beautiful gun Pete. Odd that these double stamped examples show up very near the end of the DWM Swiss production. Do you know the basis for Mr. Allara's estimate of 100-200 guns so marked? Based on the previous low observed example, 15095, that would make the double stamp only 120 guns from the end of DWM production. Yours is 445 from the end, so that immediately lowers the range from previously observed examples quite a bit. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-04-2005, 06:15 PM	#9
munky User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Quick question First, beautiful piece of work you have. I have recently acquired a luger made by DWM a lot like yours. 1915 is stamped on it, From what I understand this is probably the date it was made. Where can I find out as much as I can about it. I have already researched it and learned a lot but there are a few things I still need to know. Also, where could I buy some 7.65 shells for it?

09-14-2005, 09:49 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Last batch of photos :

09-15-2005, 01:31 PM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Ron, I really had to discipline myself over these past 2 years and not just buy another nice Cross/Shield. When I first saw the double +/M stamping of # 15140 in the Bobba book, I thought to myself if would be marvelous to be able to add one to my collection...one day. Then in a matter of 2 months, I run across two (2) for sale in the USA... When I was conversing with Roberto, he knew I was considering buying # 15095 in the USA...at the time he did not know I was also looking at # 14770 (from Simpson's)... (# 15095 is still for sale, if anyone has interest I can email contact info. and photos the seller sent to me.) Roberto just estimated the 100-200 range with serials he has seen or that which had been reported to him. My # 14770 really does push the reported numbers back a bit...I am also pleased it is not import stamped or p-date release stamped. What I do not know is if the traditional " + and +/M " appeared before the DWM-Swiss M1906 cross/shield production ended or not. That is...did the double +/M remain in effect to the end or did the little cross eventually replace one of the +/M's before the production run ended.

12-02-2005, 11:50 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I think this is another double Muhlemann stamped M1906 Swiss cross/shield luger : It is currently on the RIA auction, Lot # 1025...luger serial # 14924...

12-03-2005, 10:29 AM	#7
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Possibly, Pete. Are you determining this by the pistol's serial number range? I certainly cannot make out the Muhmnann stamps in the photos supplied.

12-03-2005, 12:31 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Doc, The photo is not quite clear for me to be 100% sure... But the left most stamping is a single +/M in an oval cartouche...the right hand one is the same size as the other...so I assume it is also a +/M... The other cross/shield Swiss lugers (prior to 1913 Muhlemann's inspection career beginning) had a single "+" followed by some with a "+" and a "+/V" stamping...I do not think I see a +/V on this luger at RIA... Its serial number of 14924 places it after mine with 14770 and in line with other double +/M stamped lugers... I have not seen or have any luger reported with only a single +/M stamping...so it may be that when Muhlemann came on the scene, he used the double stamping exclusively to the end of the cross/shield run and then switched to a single +/M stamping on the '24 Bern lugers... If anyone is looking for a double stamped +/M luger, it would certainly be worth a call to the RIA folks on the phone...

12-04-2005, 06:52 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Eric, If you live in the USA, you might try this stuff. Although $ 18.00 per 50-round box is not "cheap" compared to 9 mm ammo, it is less expensive than the $ 25 - 35/box price you see at gun shows when you can find this ammo in .30 luger (aka 7,65 mm). http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=97228

12-04-2005, 08:29 PM	#11
munky User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Pete. I do live in the US, Pennsylvania to be exact. Before I order online I'm going to check a few local gun shops. The one I checked didn't have any and I don't think they can. Thanks again

12-04-2005, 10:35 PM	#12
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Pete you sure gotta think about emptying that safe of yours again with some of these clunkers . Richie

01-22-2008, 11:27 PM	#13
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Here is another "Double Muhlemann" stamped M1906 cross/shield for sale in CH with Andrew Zink. http://www.augustus.ch/ It is in his "Vintage Pistols" section, 2nd. gun offering down. Asking is $ 2430 USD...in case some of our European members might be looking for one. This gun for sale is SN 14776...only 6 numbers after my SN 14770...