1916 DWM P. 08 value?

drmessimer · 02-07-2008, 07:55 PM

I am hoping that some of you in this forum can tell me what is a reasonable price to ask for a WWI P.08 (Luger) made in 1916 by Deutsche Waffen und Mutnition (DWM). The serial number is 4543 and all the parts match that serial number. There are a service holster and two magazines which do not match the pistolÃ¢??s serial number. One magazine has no serial number and the other has number 4327. The pistol operates perfectly and the barrel is in NRA excellent condition with absolutely no pits. The bluing is in virtually new condition. The holster was made by Vereinigte Fabrikanten fÃ?Â¼r militÃ?Â¤r Lederzeuge, GMBH, Solingen, 1916. It is in excellent condition and has the take-down tool inside the flap.
This pistol was brought home in 1919 by Capt. Ralph Lutz, an intelligence officer with the AEF and during the postwar occupation. Lutz, a Ph.D. was a personal friend of Herbert Hoover, and on HooverÃ¢??s behalf founded the Hoover Foundation and Library for War and Peace at Stanford University. I acquired the pistol from his son-in-law and daughter several years ago. I am still in regular contact with LutzÃ¢??s daughter and can provide a letter of authentication if that is necessary.
I would like to sell the pistol, but IÃ¢??m not out to make a killing. All I want to accomplish is sell it for a reasonable price, and legally. So, IÃ¢??m asking you who are experts in this area, what is it worth and how do I go about selling it legally? If you want to check on me, please put my name in Google and you will find ample information. Thank you. Dwight R. Messimer

Edward Tinker · 02-07-2008, 08:02 PM

Dwight, welcome to the forum. I moved this to the new collector area, as the for sale section is for items, presently for sale and have a value attached to it (i.e. for sale and not sounding like an auction(.

Can you provide digital pictures? That is needed for any type of valuation and even then is a rough guess. all parts must be numbered corrrectly etc.

The provenance you have is great, but adds only a little to the overall value.

Value could be $600 for a reblue, nickled or pitted to $1800 for a nice one.

Legally you can sell it to anyone that can receive it in their state. In my state of Colorado, I ahve a Collectors license, (C&R FFL 03), so I could send it to you via fax, email or in an envelope with payment and you could legally send it to me overnight delivery (UPS or FedEx).

Ed

MFC · 02-08-2008, 03:07 AM

Ed,
Your finger lifted off the shift key too soon. I think you meant to type $600 not 4600. (happens to me all the time)
Mike C.

Pete Ebbink · 02-08-2008, 12:27 PM

Dwight,

Here is a web site that will show you the range of 1916 DWM Lugers at the retail level...price/value depends on condition, originality, factory-matched parts, magazines, % finish remaining, unit markings, correct holster, etc.

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?...sort=2a&page=2

There is also one 1916 offering on this site :

http://www.fgsfirearms.com/lugers.ph...ers&subcat=DWM

wlyon · 02-08-2008, 01:11 PM

Dwight I would look at Simpsons very carefully. They are always way high. I have never understood why people pay these outlandish prices. When we do we perpetuate the high cost of our hobby. Bill

Pete Ebbink · 02-08-2008, 01:28 PM

Hi Bill,

Two comments :

1. I think Simpson LTD and other retail dealers are marketing to another "category" of Luger buyers that are coming into the hobby from a more-recent investment perspective...maybe moving monies from other areas of their investments into Lugers.

These buyers may not be the "penny-wise" collectors you see at gun shows, garage sales, and pawn shops.

2. I hear from lots of old-time collectors that have had their collections for 20-30 years. They certainly are not complaining about such retail outfits such as Simpsons "setting the bar" high...it only means they will pocket more $$'s as they sell off.

And they also tell me they are glad they are not buying nowdays...

policeluger · 02-08-2008, 01:47 PM

Pete is correct on both...may I add, and at least for me in a more remote part of the country and not friendly to gun shows, when a big dealer gets in a gun I want, and I have bought several from Simpson's including my beloved Persian I may need to sell later this year, when I factor in the travel cost to a big gun show and the remote chance of finding a gun I want for my collection, sometimes the dealer prices are not to bad....just my 2 cents worth.....

wlyon · 02-08-2008, 06:41 PM

I agree with the selling someday and I have been collecting lugers for 40 yrs. However I can not buy anymore at the new prices. Inflated prices are ok unless your buying. To recognize a profit down the road is great if you have the funds to buy now . Bill

02-07-2008, 07:55 PM	#1
drmessimer New User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: California Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1916 DWM P. 08 value? I am hoping that some of you in this forum can tell me what is a reasonable price to ask for a WWI P.08 (Luger) made in 1916 by Deutsche Waffen und Mutnition (DWM). The serial number is 4543 and all the parts match that serial number. There are a service holster and two magazines which do not match the pistolÃ¢??s serial number. One magazine has no serial number and the other has number 4327. The pistol operates perfectly and the barrel is in NRA excellent condition with absolutely no pits. The bluing is in virtually new condition. The holster was made by Vereinigte Fabrikanten fÃ?Â¼r militÃ?Â¤r Lederzeuge, GMBH, Solingen, 1916. It is in excellent condition and has the take-down tool inside the flap. This pistol was brought home in 1919 by Capt. Ralph Lutz, an intelligence officer with the AEF and during the postwar occupation. Lutz, a Ph.D. was a personal friend of Herbert Hoover, and on HooverÃ¢??s behalf founded the Hoover Foundation and Library for War and Peace at Stanford University. I acquired the pistol from his son-in-law and daughter several years ago. I am still in regular contact with LutzÃ¢??s daughter and can provide a letter of authentication if that is necessary. I would like to sell the pistol, but IÃ¢??m not out to make a killing. All I want to accomplish is sell it for a reasonable price, and legally. So, IÃ¢??m asking you who are experts in this area, what is it worth and how do I go about selling it legally? If you want to check on me, please put my name in Google and you will find ample information. Thank you. Dwight R. Messimer

02-07-2008, 08:02 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,936 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Dwight, welcome to the forum. I moved this to the new collector area, as the for sale section is for items, presently for sale and have a value attached to it (i.e. for sale and not sounding like an auction(. Can you provide digital pictures? That is needed for any type of valuation and even then is a rough guess. all parts must be numbered corrrectly etc. The provenance you have is great, but adds only a little to the overall value. Value could be $600 for a reblue, nickled or pitted to $1800 for a nice one. Legally you can sell it to anyone that can receive it in their state. In my state of Colorado, I ahve a Collectors license, (C&R FFL 03), so I could send it to you via fax, email or in an envelope with payment and you could legally send it to me overnight delivery (UPS or FedEx). Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-08-2008, 03:07 AM	#3
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Ed, Your finger lifted off the shift key too soon. I think you meant to type $600 not 4600. (happens to me all the time) Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

02-08-2008, 01:11 PM	#5
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,175 Thanked 2,562 Times in 956 Posts	Dwight I would look at Simpsons very carefully. They are always way high. I have never understood why people pay these outlandish prices. When we do we perpetuate the high cost of our hobby. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

02-08-2008, 06:41 PM	#8
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,175 Thanked 2,562 Times in 956 Posts	I agree with the selling someday and I have been collecting lugers for 40 yrs. However I can not buy anymore at the new prices. Inflated prices are ok unless your buying. To recognize a profit down the road is great if you have the funds to buy now . Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

02-08-2008, 12:27 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Dwight, Here is a web site that will show you the range of 1916 DWM Lugers at the retail level...price/value depends on condition, originality, factory-matched parts, magazines, % finish remaining, unit markings, correct holster, etc. http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?...sort=2a&page=2 There is also one 1916 offering on this site : http://www.fgsfirearms.com/lugers.ph...ers&subcat=DWM

02-08-2008, 01:28 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Bill, Two comments : 1. I think Simpson LTD and other retail dealers are marketing to another "category" of Luger buyers that are coming into the hobby from a more-recent investment perspective...maybe moving monies from other areas of their investments into Lugers. These buyers may not be the "penny-wise" collectors you see at gun shows, garage sales, and pawn shops. 2. I hear from lots of old-time collectors that have had their collections for 20-30 years. They certainly are not complaining about such retail outfits such as Simpsons "setting the bar" high...it only means they will pocket more $$'s as they sell off. And they also tell me they are glad they are not buying nowdays...

02-08-2008, 01:47 PM	#7
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Pete is correct on both...may I add, and at least for me in a more remote part of the country and not friendly to gun shows, when a big dealer gets in a gun I want, and I have bought several from Simpson's including my beloved Persian I may need to sell later this year, when I factor in the travel cost to a big gun show and the remote chance of finding a gun I want for my collection, sometimes the dealer prices are not to bad....just my 2 cents worth.....