New Pistols at Home

[Marvin]

Well guys, I have 2 new pistols to report. The first one is the 1907 Dreyse with the RFV stamp. I was very happy with this little purchase; the pistol is in 93% condition (to me a little less than the 95% the dealer said it was), all matching except the magazine serial number was "lined thru" and the RFV number engraved on the bottom plate to force match. The number is "R.F.V 6315" and the serial number is 74256. I know there wer approx. 250,000 made, but can any of you guys can provide any information on the date of manufacture? There is not a lot of info on this pistol. By the way, it came out of the Col Whittington collection that he selling off.


The next pistol is a nice 93-95% "G" Date Luger. When I fist took it apart to verify it was al matching, I thought the holdopen was not stamped, but after puting on my glasses and looking closer, the stamp is there but a lighter hit than usual. There is nothing unusaul about the pistol; it is a 2nd variation with the Droop E/63 Waffenampts, and the an early "e" suffix. I guessed that it was probably made in September/October time frame since they only went into the "f" suffix range in 1935. Most of the blue wear is on the "hump" of the sideplate and at the muzzle from being carried on a holster and probably never used in combat.


One thing I have noticed on Lugers, and other pistols is that many times there will be blue wear on the right side of the triggerguard as if the person holding the pistol kept his finger there instead of the trigger. Does anyone have any info on the German Army procedure, if any, on how to hold a loaded pistol and still be safe? In the US Army, we were tought to keep your finger off the trigger unless you were ready to fire.


Marvin

[Joe]

Marvin

There are period pictures of German troops holding Lugers with their fore finder outside the trigger guard running parallel to the barrel. There is a nice picture in Jan Still's, "Third Rich Lugers" book on page 64, 94, 164, 210 and a great one on 142. It is fairly obivious that this holding method was the result of firearms training.

Joe

[Chuck Shoun]

I recall a few years ago seeing a movie clip of two police officers demonstrating the finger on and off the trigger. They faced each other with rubber dart pistols (both alike). One had his finger on the trigger, and the other had his finger beside the trigger guard, both with the pistols at the pointing down ready position. At a given signal, they would raise their pistols and fire them. The rubber darts crossed at the mid-point in all three domonstrations. Just a little story to share. (Don't feed the trolls).

[Dok]

The picture on our Markings page (from Datig's book), shows a German soldier with his finger outside the trigger area I believe.

[John Sabato]

Never took notice before, but the finger is definitely outside the trigger, and a close examination of the Luger in this photo also shows that the safety is on... Must have been a lull in the fighting... I can't imagine a Luger out of it's holster in a combat situation with the safety on...can you?


-John Sabato




http://www.lugerforum.com/images/datigphoto.jpg

In police and military training, it has been shown that if you teach the safety, safety and safety without regard to real life, to your people, they will do as they have been taught. I have heard this story several times, that in the 60's and 70's so many police officers were taught to pick up their brass from their revolvers during firearm training, that out of habit several did that in real life situations, and were shot or had near misses. Because of this, we (the good NCO's I hope) always tried to instill in our troopies that what they did at the range would be what they would do in real life. Maybe the guy in the picture always put the safety on, I know that it would be easy to foget. But in combat, I bet you wouldn't forget very many times!


"Train in life as in combat, so in combat you keep your life".


Ed

[Marvin]

Thanks guys for your comments! I had noticed that usually the right side of the triggerguard had some blue wear right at the point where my finger would have resting if not on the trigger. I thought this may be the case that the German soldier was tought to do this for safety to others nearby (German that is) when no engaged in combat. I also looked at several of my other Lugers and most have this slight blue wear. Thanks for the input, this was interesting, and I had never noticed the photo of the soldier in the picture with his finger off the trigger.


Marvin

[Johnny Peppers]

Could this be where the triggerguard touches the holster? I looked in several holsters and they all show a contact point where the triggerguard would rest. If the triggerguard shows wear from the light touch of a finger, the front and rear gripstraps should be worn bright also if this is the case.

[schwob]

Just my .02. Several of my Luger have what we would call a hair spring trigger release. These are unworked actions, as far as I know. Could it be the German in the picture has one of these sensative triggers. An example of better safe than sorry. I wonder how he made out in a combat situation. Maybe one of our people had another chance as the German though to push off the safety.

[Marvin]

Johnny,


Good point on the holster causing the wear! I have also noticed that the grips on the rear and the front most often tend to have a more "dull" appearnace on the blue compared to the rest of the bluing. I contribute this to the perspiration/oil on the hands of the soldier holding the pistol, but most often the area is not worn through like on the triggerguard. You may have hit on the reason the blue is worn on the triggerguard.


marvin

[BILL]

I have looked at the Datig picture and even enhanced it with Adobe Photoshop, adjusted the contrast, brightness, sharpness, etc. and still am not sure that the German soldier has his finger 'outside' of the trigger guard. I will agree that the safety is on and it was possibly a 'staged' picture since most photographs were not taken in direct combat. When the bullets are flying most photo-journalists do what everyone else does, hit the dirt.

[BILL]

OK, I have to admit that I did see some 'close up and personal' phototography in the HBO special "We Stand Alone Together:The Men of Easy Company". My hat is off to anyone with the cajones to stand still and capture on film a German artillery attack (as was shown near Bostogne). The Battle of the Bulge must have been terrifying. Since my dad was on Omaha beach at the time I am glad that the 101st was behind the lines taking out German strongholds.

Thee are lots of intersting films, both live action and still taken during the war. Ernie Pyle was shot on the front lines of the Pacific Theatre, after going through the European Theatre.


I have seen many real (US and German)fighting sequences, very scary and amazing that they had the guts to shoot the film!


Ed

[Thor]

Bill, for my dad and me, I second the praise of the 101st. May dad was on Omaha too! Thor