DWM Luger? 1900ish?

Loves2Shoot · 01-21-2010, 08:24 PM

I have this gun and am trying to find a fair price for it. It seems in very good condition. It is a 30 Luger.

The story is this was bought when his great grandfather was in the war (which war he doesn't know) and it has been handed down since, so it is supposed to be over 100 years old. To me (I'm a gunsmith of modern pistols) it seems to be excellent made and in amazing condition. He would like find out more about the pistol, and I'd like to find out what a fair price is, as I wouldn't mind having it. I offered him $500 but he thought it might be worth a $1000, but I have no clue to the "real value."

Any help would be appreciated.

BogeyB · 01-21-2010, 08:38 PM

Hi Scott,

Your Luger is a 1920 DWM Commercial ( Alphabet DWM ) with a " r " suffix. It was made in 1926-28 ( a little help here guys! ). It is stamped Germany for export into the US. It is in nice shape, and an asking price of 1000.00 is not unreasonable. If you could talk him down some would be great!!

Mike

Loves2Shoot · 01-21-2010, 08:43 PM

Thanks! How to you determine the date? I was told by someone else that the date indicated it is 1900-1903.

drbuster · 01-21-2010, 08:50 PM

Loves2shoot, Mike is accurate about the date. It was made definitely later than 1920 and before 1926 or so. The 1900 model lugers look very different....peruse the Forum!

Loves2Shoot · 01-21-2010, 09:04 PM

That's why I came here. There are so many variations that it is very confusing. I thought there might be some sort of chart to refer to manufacturers and serial numbers.

Are these pretty common?

Loves2Shoot · 01-21-2010, 09:06 PM

PS. should a moderator move this to another era thread or can I? If so where should it go? Thanks again.

FNorm · 01-21-2010, 09:36 PM

Yes there is a chart. Jan Still's "Weimar and Early Lugers" The R series was last 9 months or so of 1928. If they kept to a standard production rate, 4158r should have been late summer-fall of 1928.

Made in both 9mm, or 7.65 mm A difference of some $100-300. The 9 being the more desired.

Probably the most common Luger found in the USA.

FN

Loves2Shoot · 01-21-2010, 09:50 PM

Excellent! 7.65mm (30 cal)

Any idea on where to find a value? It is a great piece of machinery. Much better built than most of today's production pistols.

FNorm · 01-21-2010, 09:56 PM

Try: https://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php...fdfdbebfdb1f95

But these people are a bit high. Private sales, deduct 20-30% or so.

1920 commercial = alphabet series.

Ron Smith · 01-21-2010, 10:36 PM

Here is a 1900 for comparison.

Longer thinner barrel.

No stock lug.

Grip safety.

"Dished" toggle knobs.

There are other differences, but these are the most obvious.

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...fdfdbebfdb1f95

Edward Tinker · 01-21-2010, 10:45 PM

If all matching and I think it probably is worth the $1000, even tho it is 7.65mm

Its a very nice one...

Ed

alanint · 01-21-2010, 10:48 PM

Is it me, or does the barrel look slightly shorter than standard??

FNorm · 01-21-2010, 11:27 PM

Hmmm... Possibly. I thought the barrel looked fatter than a 7.65, but maybe it's the over all proportions.

FN

Loves2Shoot · 01-22-2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

If all matching and I think it probably is worth the $1000, even tho it is 7.65mm

Its a very nice one...

Ed

It is all matching, my biggest concern initially was the excellent condition for a firearm of that vintage. It does not appear to be modified at all.

I really appreciate all the comments and help, it looks like you have a great forum here.

After checking this one out, I'm sure a few will find their way into my safe.

MFC · 01-22-2010, 02:00 AM

The suffix is a 'p' not 'r'. S#4158p was made late 1926.

sheepherder · 01-22-2010, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Is it me, or does the barrel look slightly shorter than standard??

By "standard", do you mean 9mm??? if so, yes, it is ~3/16" shorter than the 9mm.

If you are measuring the exposed portion of the barrel, that is from the receiver to the muzzle, the 7.65mm bbl is ~3.00"; the 9mm bbl is ~3 3/16". (This is with a scale & eyeball; not a verniers).

Holding my commercial Luger up to my monitor, the barrel looks right for a 7.65mm.

Closeup pics always look warped.

DavidJayUden · 01-22-2010, 09:07 AM

Your being a gunsmith on the newer stuff, you will appriciate the time and craftsmanship that went into making one of these. Definitely "fitted", not assembled. Keep a Luger handy for when a customer starts talking about craftsmanship and quality.
Welcome, and I agree with that $1000 figure. Your gun is exceptional in condition but of common model and less desirable caliber (read expensive to shoot).
dju

alvin · 01-22-2010, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loves2Shoot

Are these pretty common?

In Luger community, yes. In gun community, no. Local gun shops may carry one or two Lugers, most of them do not carry any Luger at all.

If it's not because of Internet, it's hard for me to believe so many Lugers survived, and in this excellent shape.

sheepherder · 01-22-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

If it's not because of Internet, it's hard for me to believe so many Lugers survived, and in this excellent shape.

I've read that after the War, the ferry boat line between France and England had so many war-souvenir Lugers lying on the bottom that you could almost walk across them to England...

Probably an exaggeration...but from what I've read, the penalty for a British soldier caught bringing back a war-souvenir pistol was pretty severe...Most decided to chuck them overboard...

We have a Channel Islands member here...maybe we could coax him into telling some war stories...

01-21-2010, 08:24 PM	#1
Loves2Shoot User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 6 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	DWM Luger? 1900ish? I have this gun and am trying to find a fair price for it. It seems in very good condition. It is a 30 Luger. The story is this was bought when his great grandfather was in the war (which war he doesn't know) and it has been handed down since, so it is supposed to be over 100 years old. To me (I'm a gunsmith of modern pistols) it seems to be excellent made and in amazing condition. He would like find out more about the pistol, and I'd like to find out what a fair price is, as I wouldn't mind having it. I offered him $500 but he thought it might be worth a $1000, but I have no clue to the "real value." Any help would be appreciated.

01-21-2010, 08:38 PM	#2
BogeyB Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Mc Donough, GA. Posts: 420 Thanks: 0 Thanked 222 Times in 96 Posts	Hi Scott, Your Luger is a 1920 DWM Commercial ( Alphabet DWM ) with a " r " suffix. It was made in 1926-28 ( a little help here guys! ). It is stamped Germany for export into the US. It is in nice shape, and an asking price of 1000.00 is not unreasonable. If you could talk him down some would be great!! Mike __________________ MAGA Always!! NRA Benifactor, GCA

01-21-2010, 09:36 PM	#7
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Yes there is a chart. Jan Still's "Weimar and Early Lugers" The R series was last 9 months or so of 1928. If they kept to a standard production rate, 4158r should have been late summer-fall of 1928. Made in both 9mm, or 7.65 mm A difference of some $100-300. The 9 being the more desired. Probably the most common Luger found in the USA. FN Last edited by FNorm; 01-21-2010 at 09:52 PM. Reason: add

01-21-2010, 09:56 PM	#9
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Try: https://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php...fdfdbebfdb1f95 But these people are a bit high. Private sales, deduct 20-30% or so. 1920 commercial = alphabet series. Last edited by FNorm; 01-21-2010 at 10:01 PM. Reason: add

01-21-2010, 10:36 PM	#10
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Here is a 1900 for comparison. Longer thinner barrel. No stock lug. Grip safety. "Dished" toggle knobs. There are other differences, but these are the most obvious. http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...fdfdbebfdb1f95 __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

01-21-2010, 08:43 PM	#3
Loves2Shoot User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 6 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks! How to you determine the date? I was told by someone else that the date indicated it is 1900-1903.

01-21-2010, 08:50 PM	#4
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Loves2shoot, Mike is accurate about the date. It was made definitely later than 1920 and before 1926 or so. The 1900 model lugers look very different....peruse the Forum!

01-21-2010, 09:04 PM	#5
Loves2Shoot User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 6 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	That's why I came here. There are so many variations that it is very confusing. I thought there might be some sort of chart to refer to manufacturers and serial numbers. Are these pretty common?

01-21-2010, 09:06 PM	#6
Loves2Shoot User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 6 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	PS. should a moderator move this to another era thread or can I? If so where should it go? Thanks again.

01-21-2010, 09:50 PM	#8
Loves2Shoot User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 6 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Excellent! 7.65mm (30 cal) Any idea on where to find a value? It is a great piece of machinery. Much better built than most of today's production pistols.

01-21-2010, 10:45 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	If all matching and I think it probably is worth the $1000, even tho it is 7.65mm Its a very nice one... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-21-2010, 10:48 PM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Is it me, or does the barrel look slightly shorter than standard??

01-21-2010, 11:27 PM	#13
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Hmmm... Possibly. I thought the barrel looked fatter than a 7.65, but maybe it's the over all proportions. FN

01-22-2010, 02:00 AM	#15
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	The suffix is a 'p' not 'r'. S#4158p was made late 1926. __________________ Mike C.

01-22-2010, 09:07 AM	#17
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Your being a gunsmith on the newer stuff, you will appriciate the time and craftsmanship that went into making one of these. Definitely "fitted", not assembled. Keep a Luger handy for when a customer starts talking about craftsmanship and quality. Welcome, and I agree with that $1000 figure. Your gun is exceptional in condition but of common model and less desirable caliber (read expensive to shoot). dju