BYF42 grips - marked or not?

[Fenian]

Hello again

Regarding my BYF42 Luger, the grips are NOT marked with waffenamps or the last 2 digits of my gun's serial number. I've read about this issue in several threads (I did research before posting this) and also read what was mentioned in the FAQs.

Question #13 in the FAQs regarding this issue specifically states "The grips should, but not always, have an eagle/135 stamp on them and, perhaps, the last 2 digits of the serial #. Again, the grips were not always stamped..."

Not always stamped. OK, so far so good.

The FAQs go on to state "Almost all of the byf 42's have the last two digits on the inside of the wood grips and almost all of them have the eagle 135 acceptance proof. In fact, it would be the exception to find an original issued byf 42 rig that did not have the last two digits and the eagle 135 proof on them, or at least one of them."

Here it sounds like unmarked BYF42 grips are extremely rare, if they exist at all. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting things?

I took my grips off 3 times (lol) to make sure they had no stamps and I'm finally convinced none were ever applied. The grips are certainly not new and sure don't look like the cheap repros offered at Sarco and other places. The "islands" are bordered with old oil stains and have obviously been on my pistol for some time. Also, looking very closely at the surface/grain of the wood on the back side of my grips shows that they were never sanded/steamed/etc to remove any pre-existing (potentially non matching) waffenamps or serial numbers. In fact the grain of the wood and faint milling marks are visible upon close inspection revealing the grips haven't been screwed with.

There does seem to be a pattern of people asking specifically about BYF42 pistols with unmarked grips grips, no?

To the knowledgeable guys here - I sincerely hope I'm not beating a dead horse, and apologize if I am. However...

Could my BYF42 have original, unmarked grips?

Thanks. I'm getting a beer now.

Edited for clarity.

[Edward Tinker]

I don't see any contradiction in the FAQ, as;

The grips should, but not always

and

Almost all of the byf 42's


Say the same thing, they are commonly found numbered. Yours doesn't, most should, so its possible yours are okay, but they may not be.

Perhaps Frank will see this and comment, as I beleive I borrowed his words from several postings.

Lugers are not 100% always one way, they are usually done that way, but when you talk about 120,000 made in a year, there would be inconsistency (and if I got the numbers wrong, I am sorry)

[Fenian]

Thanks for your response Sir.

I've got a feeling this is going to be one of those "gray areas" found in collecting milsurps...

[Edward Tinker]

yes sir, I think you're right.


Would apprecaite an expert on these grips to help rewrite the section on byf 41 and byf 42 grips.


Ed

[Fenian]

What happened to "no flaming" lol?

[George Anderson]

I have found that at least half if not more of the byf 42's I see are not numbered to the gun but usually do have an acceptance stamp.

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by Fenian

What happened to "no flaming" lol?

I am sorry, what does this mean? Who flamed anyone?


My speciality is weimar era Simson's and police lugers, pre-WW2; not byf's, so I asked for an expert to help re-write the FAQ to help ALL members. ?????

[Fenian]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

I am sorry, what does this mean? Who flamed anyone?


My speciality is weimar era Simson's and police lugers, pre-WW2; not byf's, so I asked for an expert to help re-write the FAQ to help ALL members. ?????

Oops.

You're a Mod so I guess I considered you an expert across the board. I thought you were twisting my nads, I apologize.

[alvin]

Don't know byf either. But there are people know this thing. Post clear pictures of both sides of the wood grip, I bet people could help ID them. I know that you inspected, but these things true or false largely depend on comparison, if this is the only byf in the collection, no compare then conclusion is not reliable. Post pictures, some knew byf millimeter by millimeter details could help. No matter how many books studied, facing detail, owner of one gun cannot match owner of a few dozen guns, period. And Internet helps this issue.

[Jason L]

Hi Fenian,
I have a byf 42 with unmarked and un-numbered grips that I believe are original to the pistol.....that is potentially two examples

[Fenian]

Originally Posted by Jason L

Hi Fenian,
I have a byf 42 with unmarked and un-numbered grips that I believe are original to the pistol.....that is potentially two examples

Excellent, I'm not alone.

Regarding the request for pics, I'll get them up eventually but my digital camera is FUBAR (my daughter did a number on it) and my cell takes lousy pics, as evidenced by my previous posts.

[Frank]

Hi Guys, BIG TOPIC, I see.

Okay, the majority of the FAQ on grip numbering was written by Bill Munis. Bill was the most knowledgeable person on Military Mausers I have ever met. I would take his read to the bank!!

From my experience, I believe that the wooden grips on a 42 byf were numbered or numbered with waffenamt marks when they left the factory.

If the grips on present 42 byf Military Mausers are unmarked, chances are they are replacements. If they appear newer than the pistol, they are probably post war replacements. If they look like they havw been on the pistol forever, likey they are field replacements.

Anyway that's my read!! Hope this helps!!

[Lugerdoc]

Other than the presence of markings on the inside of your grips, there are a couple other indicator to judge if your grips are FACTORY original to the pistol: If installed at the factory, the wood will NOT extend over the metal grip straps. Finally, the checkering of Mauser grips will be slight different with a wider flat central area, than DWM grips. See page 44 in Gibson's "The Kreighoff Parabellum", that is the only book that I'm aware of that compares the parts of the various manufacturers. TH

[Fenian]

Regarding the grip fit mentioned, the grips don't extend beyond the grip straps. Lugerdoc, I don't have access to the reference mentioned but what I did do was I googled BYF42 Lugers for photos and made a comparison; my pistol looked good (IMHO) for fit.

Thanks to all those who have responded!


Lugerdoc, any chance of you scanning the page with the comparison you refer to?

[Frank]

I would have a tendency to agree with Lugerdoc. Having said that, there are several craftsmen associated with this forun that could easily fit a grip set to a frame. Hugh Clark and Art Buchanan are two that come to my mind and perhaps even Tom Heller could do it!!

What do yo think Tom??

[Fenian]

OK
I just received a copy of "Lugers At Random" courtesy of the big brown truck.

Comparing my pistol to the BYF42 on pg 289, the grips appear to match in both checkering and fit, particularly the fit around the stock lug (set back a bit, as described by Lugerdoc).

I'm convincing myself if nothing else.

[Lugerdoc]

Frank, Undoubtedly any good restorer could fit most (unless they are too short already) original grips to most any luger and have them fit perfectly. I did not mean to imply that this insured originality, but if they aren't an exc fit, you can pretty much be sure that they ARE NOT original factory. TH

[alvin]

Since we are on panel fitting .....

I like this one, but left panel misses a little bit, please see the 3rd picture.

Still looks valid to me, but I would like hear your opinion:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=154638270

[Fenian]

Originally Posted by alvin

Since we are on panel fitting .....

I like this one, but left panel misses a little bit, please see the 3rd picture.

Still looks valid to me, but I would like hear your opinion:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=154638270

I'm unqualified to answer your question, but that sure is a pretty pistol. Not cheap.

[alvin]

No, it's not. But that has nothing to do with correctness or incorrectness of the panels. How are the panels?