Sanitized Luger

[MikeP]

Talked to a guy today at a gunshow who has seen a mint Luger-Possibly .30 cal that has no markings of any kind anywhere on the piece.


This is a positive sighting as I know this guy and value his observations.


This subject may have been kicked around before but I do not remember the details.


Lunch box takeout or some kind of sneak?


Rgds

MikeP

When you get the full details and info, you will probably find that it is not really 'sanitized'..?


I would bet that a sharp Luger guy could tell you when it was made and by whom! Probably just had the SN ground off.


Let us know when you get a chance to personally examine it?


The Shadow Knows!

heheheheheheheheh

[HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr]

I had a Mauser banner marked luger that was built out of spareparts.

The only serialnumber was a 6 digit number that the swedish police once had required to be stamped in.

No parts had the 2 digit numbers and otherwise from the Mauser banner link and the serial the gun was totally naked from numbers.

I guess that the parts was either armoures spareparts or spares that have been sold the the Swedish agent for mauser during the 30th.


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan



http://www.vapensmedjan.com

[Marvin]

Mike,


Lugers like yours are real puzzles to figure out. Unless you have some backup info, it is hard to tell what has happened.


I have a DWM Luger made sometimes from 1913-1916 time frame since it does not have a relieved sear, and the pistol has had most of the stamps removed during this rework. The serial numbers are there, but light, the DWM stamp as just visible, and the inspection stamps are gone. The metal rework is very good and the new salt blue job is excellent. Whoever did the bluing work, knew what they were doing. If I saw this pistol in a dealers shop, I would say it was just a US rework, but I bought this from a veteran a number of years ago who I have know for a number of years. He said this pistol was taken from a German officer (yea, I know, all Germans were officers, ha, ha, ha, but the truth) who surrendered to his outfit near the end of the war. I have no reason to not beleive him as he is an honest man. Why was this done and by whom; I guess this will never be known.


I have speculated that maybe this was a WWI pistol that was kept by a soldier, and when this soldier was back in uniform, he had the pistol reworked for his use during WWII. This is pure speculation, but the only thing I can think may have happened. The pistol is not worth that much since it is not a factory piece, but what a history it has had. Enjoy the Luger.


Marvin

[Lonnie Zimmerman]

Mike; if this pistol has no serial numbers, but did and they were removed, it is a Feloney to have in your possession! BEWARE!!


Lonnie

[Thor]

I once passed on an Artillery Luger because it had no serial number, I have heard you can get the ATF to reserialize them for you, but it wasnt worth the time and effort....to me anyway! I still don't have an Arty! There are stories about having a frame that never was put together with a full gun hence to serial number, and there are stories about frames having their serials removed which IS A FELONY Not worth it! ~Thor~

[MikeP]

OK-to clear this up--somewhat--I don't have the gun=it was seen by an intelligent educated person who is in his 70's and is a long time firearm collector/enthusiast. He is an astute observer and reported that this gun appears never to have had any kind of marks on it-he is tying to buy it but the owner is reluctant to get off it.

He is willing to offer a lot of money for it but he would like to know if there is any history on such a piece.

He had a complete Luftwaffe drilling setup with aluminum case and all accessories a while back. Incidentally he is somewhat of a local legend having participated in several major landings with USMC in WW II-all authenticated. Several years ago after he retired he was involved in a MIA recovery project and was instrumental in locating several graves on Guadalcanal. Trying to get him to write a book. He wondered if it might have been a lunch box gun. It is .30 cal. That's about it-this is not some bubba deal.

[John D.]

Hi MikeP..!!


I'm not sure where anyone questioned the intergrity of either the buyer or seller - but it sounds like the individual who wants to purchase it certainly would know what to look for..!


That being the case - I can offer a small bit of information about one variation where it is possible that such a Luger might well exist. After the surrender of the Kreighoff factory and before Russian occupation - several Lugers, in fact, left that factory assembled from G.I.s as well as a small team of guarded German factory workers. There are three variotions to these Lugers (termed "Post War")..


- G.I. assembled from the substiantial parts bins at the factory - where there were a "hodgepodge" of frames (some I would think were not serialized in the production line yet) spares and parts from HK, Mauser, Simson, DWM, etc..


- Factory guarded employees who producted a limited number of Krieghoffs that were internally marked (see expernally marked in the next variation below). I believe the highest recorded internally numbered Krieg is about 200 - but it is reference in Gibson's book somewhere.


- Factory production Kriegs for PX sales - which are externally stamped and serialized.


It may be that the Luger in question is of the first variation - a G.I. assembled Luger. For that, I really don't think that whoever put it together would really care whether the frame was serialized or not - as it may have been their own trophy and may have pulled the frame out of a number of spares available. Further, many firearms still exist without serial numbers in today's collecting/shooting community (Yea, I'm serious - for example, anyone own an early variation of a Mossberg 142-A - a HIGHLY popular .22 rifle? If so - please post the serial number of that gun - as they are listed as "NSN"...). So, chances are this *isn't* a "FORGERY" - as why would anyone go to the trouble to not only erase the serial number - but ALL the stamps/proofs on a Luger? Just doesn't make sense, IMNSHO.


However - it may be an interesting piece - and we would all be interested to know if there are any markings on the inside parts (proofs, five pointed stars, CIRCLE A, internally numbered) - or small proofs, for example - firing pin, barrel, etc.). Any of those markings would help identify it's variation and possibly, its origin.


I don't know what happened at other Luger production facilities at the end of the war (maybe someone will join in with that info.), but from a Krieghoff standpoint, a Luger such as you describe certainly is possible.


HTH!!!

[tony k]

John, I've got two 142As and a 142K, all with no serial numbers. That's because they were made from 1949 to 1957. Under the governing federal law at that time, manufacturers were not required to serial-number .22 rimfire rifles and single-barrel shotguns. I guess they were thought of as farm implements rather than weapons LOL!


It wasn't until the mid- to late-1960s that federal law was changed and serial numbers were required for all firearms. (Of course, centerfire rifles, pump shotguns and ALL handguns have always been required to have serial numbers.)


And BTW, unlike handguns, there is no BATF requirement that those .22 rimfires produced before serial numbers were mandatory must now be inscribed with new numbers.


HTH.

[MikeP]

Appreciate all the response on this-I thought a similar subject had been kicked about here a while back-but memory getting trickier with time.

Any way I told my friend I would see if I could get some thoughts on this.


Thanks MP