Thurman Wade BerryHill: Mail/Wire Fraud Alert to All Users

Hugo Borchardt · 04-13-2010, 11:23 AM

Thurman BerryHill (Thurman wade Berryhill Wichita falls TX 76301. Phone number 307797xxxx) posted a 1900 AE for sale on the forum that he says he inherited from his Grandfather. He goes under the username Kainrahl. Note his phone # is not in Texas, which he explained was because he had just moved there and was in the military.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=23732

Forum members had helped analyze the gun in another thread, and I spoke to Thurman on the phone. We negotiated a price for the gun. He was reasonable on the price as he said he needed the money. He gave Ron Wood as a passive reference (only that he helped him identify and price the gun, just as I would have done for Thurman), and had a couple stories about the gun.

My first mistake: I overnighted him a personal check as I reasoned it would be better than sending a money order if he did not ship me the gun. Upon receipt he called me and told me the bank would have to hold the check for 10 days, and gave me his bank account number and asked me to deposit the funds directly and he would tear up the check. In return he would ship the gun that day (which he did).

My second mistake: Believe it or not, I deposited the funds directly to his bank account. Fortunately he did ship me the gun and I am very pleased with it. I need to have a background check run on it however.

My third mistake: through miscommunication between my wife and I, we did not cancel the check. Thurman deposited the check instead of tearing it up, and it cleared my account 2 weeks later. Thurman hung up on me the first time I called, and does not return my calls or emails.

I had hoped that Thurman did this only under financial duress and would make this right, but am in process of dealing with it through the banks, law enforcement, and my attorneys. I have clear documentation including written negotation of the price and terms, deposit receipt to his bank acct, and copy of the cleared check.

I know that several of you have been burned similarly in the past, and though this is quite embarrassing to me as in retrospect I made several mistakes, I felt it important to post as a warning to the honorable members of this forum that trade here. Hopefully it will save someone some time and money.

I invite Thurman to contact me immediately and clear this up.

Thanks!

the gunman · 04-13-2010, 11:55 AM

Thanks for posting this information.

Edward Tinker · 04-13-2010, 12:08 PM

Interesting, I was interested in this 1900 and tried to make a deal, but couldn't come up with the funds or a deal both could live with.

Some folks are just thieves by nature if they see a good deal. Hopefully he will send you the 2nd amount and prove me / us wrong.

I would send him an email, and outline your and his legal ramifications:

1. He dealt in interstate commerce with you
2. You have clear emails stating the price (you can also point to the price here on the forum, as I have locked the thread, so he can not delete it)
3. That you will contact the city prosecutor in his town, claiming out-right fraud (creating a public record if convicted)
4. I am afraid it sounds like he planned this, but at least you have a nice 1900 / just one that you probably did not want to spend 3K+ for?

NOTE: That he was last on this site yesterday at 2:11 PM / this is public info by clicking on their profile...

Ed

PS: I admin' the full address and phone number out, even though it could be obtained via whitepages.

tudorbug · 04-14-2010, 08:39 AM

In the absence of a refund, I understand the postal inspectors take a delight in dealing with cases such as this if USPS mail was involved.

David

sheepherder · 04-14-2010, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tudorbug

In the absence of a refund, I understand the postal inspectors take a delight in dealing with cases such as this if USPS mail was involved.

David

and if thousands of dollars was involved...

Mauser720 · 04-14-2010, 09:40 AM

Clark -

I have had mixed results involving the U.S. Postal Service. Sometimes they will get involved and help, and sometimes they will say it is not their problem, even if you used a USPS money order to pay for the item.

Another effective alternative you can use is to check out the web site for the attorney general in the state where this fellow lives. A part of the site will explain his state's procedures for dealing with complaints of consumer fraud. There will usually be a form which you can download and print off, and you may also assemble and provide them with a complete case file which documents how you were ripped off.

Your case file will have to "stand on its own" which means that anyone picking up your complaint will be able to read it and clearly understand exactly what happened and when it happened. For example, when you called him on the telephone and he hung up on you, you can attach a copy of your phone bill that shows you did call his phone number on a particular date and at a particular time, etc. Plus you will have to tell them exactly what relief you are seeking; i.e., you want the amount of the fraudulently cashed check refunded to you.

The relief you are seeking has to be "personal to you" which means you can not ask that any legal action be taken against him or that he be punished or anything like that. In this case, the only appropriate relief you can ask for is that you get a refund on your fraudulently cashed check.

Since a handgun is involved, I can assure you they will take your complaint very seriously.

This approach has some advantages in my opinion. (1) It is free; (2) It will be handled by professional law enforcement personnel in the state where he lives; and, (3) There will then be a permanent record in the area where he lives regarding his activities. This may help someone else in the future.

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me via private Email. I wish you the best.

George Anderson · 04-14-2010, 10:09 AM

If the fellow is really in the military, that's the track you should follow; the man's career could be brought to a speedy and unpleasant end.

DavidJayUden · 04-14-2010, 12:30 PM

I agree. The base commander will take a very dim view of such schanagans by those under their command...
dju

alanint · 04-14-2010, 01:56 PM

The name appears in recent legal proceedings involving a release of trust to another individual; Can't be too many guys with that name:

http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/...ecord-april-7/

Ron Smith · 04-14-2010, 02:13 PM

"Thurman Wade Berry*hill, et al, to Mark E. Baker, Trustee, Mario Martinez, et al, L10 & 11, B23 of the Floral Heights Addition, aka 2506 & 2508 10th, $47,900.00, V3474 P36"

Mauser720 · 04-14-2010, 02:14 PM

Well, I used to do Inspector General (IG) investigations for the Air Force and for the Army too. Do we know which branch of the military he is allegedly in?

Hugo Borchardt · 04-14-2010, 08:02 PM

Just letting you guys know that I have read and appreciate everyone's input and comments. I appreciate you all. I will keep you posted!

Clark

danzig · 04-14-2010, 09:00 PM

The problem is there has to be a chain of actions for most law inforcment to send it to a prsicutor. One incident does not usualy make for criminal action. They will most times view it as a civil situation. If someone has taken a hundred postal money orders and not sent anything out, thats clear fraud was commited. If someone took a postal money order or use dthe postal system to sell a property they did not own it is clear fraud. But this is muddy enough I would doubt very seriously the postal office would get involved. If you know where he lives you could take him to court,but even if you win there is no way to know if you get your money. People like him make it hard for others to buy and sell over the net.

Norme · 04-14-2010, 09:45 PM

Hi Clark, In my almost 50 years in business I have, unfortunately, come across many individuals like the one in question. My experience is that once it reaches the stage of unanswered phone calls, the chances of you getting your money back are close to zero. The only consolation I can offer, is that you did get a nice Luger. You could very easily have come up empty handed! Best regards, Norm

04-13-2010, 11:23 AM	#1
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 340 Thanked 133 Times in 47 Posts	Thurman Wade BerryHill: Mail/Wire Fraud Alert to All Users Thurman BerryHill (Thurman wade Berryhill Wichita falls TX 76301. Phone number 307797xxxx) posted a 1900 AE for sale on the forum that he says he inherited from his Grandfather. He goes under the username Kainrahl. Note his phone # is not in Texas, which he explained was because he had just moved there and was in the military. http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=23732 Forum members had helped analyze the gun in another thread, and I spoke to Thurman on the phone. We negotiated a price for the gun. He was reasonable on the price as he said he needed the money. He gave Ron Wood as a passive reference (only that he helped him identify and price the gun, just as I would have done for Thurman), and had a couple stories about the gun. My first mistake: I overnighted him a personal check as I reasoned it would be better than sending a money order if he did not ship me the gun. Upon receipt he called me and told me the bank would have to hold the check for 10 days, and gave me his bank account number and asked me to deposit the funds directly and he would tear up the check. In return he would ship the gun that day (which he did). My second mistake: Believe it or not, I deposited the funds directly to his bank account. Fortunately he did ship me the gun and I am very pleased with it. I need to have a background check run on it however. My third mistake: through miscommunication between my wife and I, we did not cancel the check. Thurman deposited the check instead of tearing it up, and it cleared my account 2 weeks later. Thurman hung up on me the first time I called, and does not return my calls or emails. I had hoped that Thurman did this only under financial duress and would make this right, but am in process of dealing with it through the banks, law enforcement, and my attorneys. I have clear documentation including written negotation of the price and terms, deposit receipt to his bank acct, and copy of the cleared check. I know that several of you have been burned similarly in the past, and though this is quite embarrassing to me as in retrospect I made several mistakes, I felt it important to post as a warning to the honorable members of this forum that trade here. Hopefully it will save someone some time and money. I invite Thurman to contact me immediately and clear this up. Thanks! __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

04-14-2010, 09:40 AM	#6
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Clark - I have had mixed results involving the U.S. Postal Service. Sometimes they will get involved and help, and sometimes they will say it is not their problem, even if you used a USPS money order to pay for the item. Another effective alternative you can use is to check out the web site for the attorney general in the state where this fellow lives. A part of the site will explain his state's procedures for dealing with complaints of consumer fraud. There will usually be a form which you can download and print off, and you may also assemble and provide them with a complete case file which documents how you were ripped off. Your case file will have to "stand on its own" which means that anyone picking up your complaint will be able to read it and clearly understand exactly what happened and when it happened. For example, when you called him on the telephone and he hung up on you, you can attach a copy of your phone bill that shows you did call his phone number on a particular date and at a particular time, etc. Plus you will have to tell them exactly what relief you are seeking; i.e., you want the amount of the fraudulently cashed check refunded to you. The relief you are seeking has to be "personal to you" which means you can not ask that any legal action be taken against him or that he be punished or anything like that. In this case, the only appropriate relief you can ask for is that you get a refund on your fraudulently cashed check. Since a handgun is involved, I can assure you they will take your complaint very seriously. This approach has some advantages in my opinion. (1) It is free; (2) It will be handled by professional law enforcement personnel in the state where he lives; and, (3) There will then be a permanent record in the area where he lives regarding his activities. This may help someone else in the future. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me via private Email. I wish you the best. __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

04-14-2010, 02:13 PM	#10
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	*"Thurman Wade Berryhill, et al, to Mark E. Baker, Trustee, Mario Martinez, et al, L10 & 11, B23 of the Floral Heights Addition, aka 2506 & 2508 10th, $47,900.00, V3474 P36" __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~** said...

04-14-2010, 02:14 PM	#11
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Well, I used to do Inspector General (IG) investigations for the Air Force and for the Army too. Do we know which branch of the military he is allegedly in? __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

04-14-2010, 08:02 PM	#12
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 340 Thanked 133 Times in 47 Posts	Just letting you guys know that I have read and appreciate everyone's input and comments. I appreciate you all. I will keep you posted! Clark __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

04-13-2010, 11:55 AM	#2
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Thanks for posting this information.

04-13-2010, 12:08 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Interesting, I was interested in this 1900 and tried to make a deal, but couldn't come up with the funds or a deal both could live with. Some folks are just thieves by nature if they see a good deal. Hopefully he will send you the 2nd amount and prove me / us wrong. I would send him an email, and outline your and his legal ramifications: 1. He dealt in interstate commerce with you 2. You have clear emails stating the price (you can also point to the price here on the forum, as I have locked the thread, so he can not delete it) 3. That you will contact the city prosecutor in his town, claiming out-right fraud (creating a public record if convicted) 4. I am afraid it sounds like he planned this, but at least you have a nice 1900 / just one that you probably did not want to spend 3K+ for? NOTE: That he was last on this site yesterday at 2:11 PM / this is public info by clicking on their profile... Ed PS: I admin' the full address and phone number out, even though it could be obtained via whitepages.

04-14-2010, 08:39 AM	#4
tudorbug Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 387 Thanks: 0 Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts	In the absence of a refund, I understand the postal inspectors take a delight in dealing with cases such as this if USPS mail was involved. David

04-14-2010, 10:09 AM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	If the fellow is really in the military, that's the track you should follow; the man's career could be brought to a speedy and unpleasant end.

04-14-2010, 12:30 PM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I agree. The base commander will take a very dim view of such schanagans by those under their command... dju

04-14-2010, 01:56 PM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	The name appears in recent legal proceedings involving a release of trust to another individual; Can't be too many guys with that name: http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/...ecord-april-7/

04-14-2010, 09:00 PM	#13
danzig Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: kansas Posts: 111 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The problem is there has to be a chain of actions for most law inforcment to send it to a prsicutor. One incident does not usualy make for criminal action. They will most times view it as a civil situation. If someone has taken a hundred postal money orders and not sent anything out, thats clear fraud was commited. If someone took a postal money order or use dthe postal system to sell a property they did not own it is clear fraud. But this is muddy enough I would doubt very seriously the postal office would get involved. If you know where he lives you could take him to court,but even if you win there is no way to know if you get your money. People like him make it hard for others to buy and sell over the net.

04-14-2010, 09:45 PM	#14
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Clark, In my almost 50 years in business I have, unfortunately, come across many individuals like the one in question. My experience is that once it reaches the stage of unanswered phone calls, the chances of you getting your money back are close to zero. The only consolation I can offer, is that you did get a nice Luger. You could very easily have come up empty handed! Best regards, Norm