Are these even unit markings?

GoodOlDave · 05-01-2010, 09:47 PM

Hi all! I was told that you fine folks are the ones to bring this question to..my father brought a Luger home from the war that I inherited after his passing, and now that this is a family heirloom it would be nice to know if this thing could be identified from the markings.

It has 1911 on the receiver, with a crazy arabic looking scribble on the top of the toggle (which I've been told elsewhere is the logo for DWM) and on the grip there is stamped-

19.T.S.1.166

Each part of the ID are different sizes. The T is largest, then the S, then the 19 and the 1 being more or less equal size, then 166 being the smallest.

Other than the magazine all part numbers match. I don't see any Nazi markings on it, though, which puzzles me since it was my understanding Nazi Germany stamped everything from weapons to fountain pens with the swastika. Unless I'm missing it somewhere?

Can anyone give me any information on this thing? Thanks for anything you can provide.

Edward Tinker · 05-01-2010, 09:56 PM

Welcome to the forum. Well, nazi germany didn't start until the early 1930's, so a gun made by DWM in 1911 would not normally be stamped with nazi markings. If it had gone into some kind of refurbishment or the like, sure, it might be stamped with them, but otherwise, no.

The markings are unit markings; there are guys here who can tell you off the top of their head, I would have to look it up and spend 20 mintues double checking and by then....

Ed

Norme · 05-01-2010, 10:06 PM

Hi Dave, Your unit markings translate to 19. Train Batallion. Sanitats Kompagnie no.1. Waffen no.166. This was a medical column. Your gun's full serial number is on the front of the frame with a suffix below it, most likely an e. Can you post pictures? Regards, Norm

GoodOlDave · 05-01-2010, 10:09 PM

Thanks, Ed.

I was also toying with the idea of picking up a WWI holster for this, but if the Germans cataloged everything to the point of anal retentiveness does this mean the pistol would have been issued with a matching holster, too?

GoodOlDave · 05-01-2010, 10:16 PM

Holy smoke, you people really know your s**t! Do you work at a museum, for you to know all these things?

The SN is 6540, but I always thought it was a cursive L underneath it. Pics to follow...

Edward Tinker · 05-01-2010, 10:29 PM

A luger could have almost any year with it, but collectors "like" to have that year; I feel that year, a year before or a year after is most likely to be "correct"; that said, 1911 is an early year, not a lot made (about 10 thousand) and so, personally any WW1 holster (army type, not a later army converted to police) is acceptable.

Ed

GoodOlDave · 05-01-2010, 10:42 PM

You know, it's only when you have to create pics you actually want to keep that you discover your digital camera is a POS

Here are the best photos I could take with the thing-

GoodOlDave · 05-01-2010, 10:52 PM

Thank you, thank you for all your help.

Norme · 05-01-2010, 11:01 PM

Hi Dave, You have inherited a very collectible Luger. As far as I can tell from your photos, it is in original (unmessed with) condition. Regards, Norm

GoodOlDave · 05-01-2010, 11:26 PM

Thank you, Norm. Not sure if this means anything to you, but you're helping to educate future generations. Twenty years, thirty years, fifty years from now, when my kids and grandkids hold this in their hands and learn their family history, it'll be your identification they'll be reading.

If you're still around 150 years from now I'll tell them to look you up

Norme · 05-01-2010, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodOlDave

Thank you, Norm. Not sure if this means anything to you, but you're helping to educate future generations. Twenty years, thirty years, fifty years from now, when my kids and grandkids hold this in their hands and learn their family history, it'll be your identification they'll be reading.

If you're still around 150 years from now I'll tell them to look you up

It's a date! Regards, Norm

Ron Smith · 05-02-2010, 11:23 AM

"If you're still around 150 years from now I'll tell them to look you up"

Holy Cats!!That means that Norm should be about 300 years old by then.

Dave,

By the way "Medical Train" means a horse drawn wagon train. Not the railroad variety.

Ron

Piet · 05-03-2010, 03:32 PM

Enjoy the 1911. Next year a 100 years old. I will also have a "braai" (barbeque) next year to celebrate my 1911 DWM
Piet

05-01-2010, 09:47 PM	#1
GoodOlDave User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Are these even unit markings? Hi all! I was told that you fine folks are the ones to bring this question to..my father brought a Luger home from the war that I inherited after his passing, and now that this is a family heirloom it would be nice to know if this thing could be identified from the markings. It has 1911 on the receiver, with a crazy arabic looking scribble on the top of the toggle (which I've been told elsewhere is the logo for DWM) and on the grip there is stamped- 19.T.S.1.166 Each part of the ID are different sizes. The T is largest, then the S, then the 19 and the 1 being more or less equal size, then 166 being the smallest. Other than the magazine all part numbers match. I don't see any Nazi markings on it, though, which puzzles me since it was my understanding Nazi Germany stamped everything from weapons to fountain pens with the swastika. Unless I'm missing it somewhere? Can anyone give me any information on this thing? Thanks for anything you can provide.

05-01-2010, 09:56 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Welcome to the forum. Well, nazi germany didn't start until the early 1930's, so a gun made by DWM in 1911 would not normally be stamped with nazi markings. If it had gone into some kind of refurbishment or the like, sure, it might be stamped with them, but otherwise, no. The markings are unit markings; there are guys here who can tell you off the top of their head, I would have to look it up and spend 20 mintues double checking and by then.... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-01-2010, 10:29 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,033 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	A luger could have almost any year with it, but collectors "like" to have that year; I feel that year, a year before or a year after is most likely to be "correct"; that said, 1911 is an early year, not a lot made (about 10 thousand) and so, personally any WW1 holster (army type, not a later army converted to police) is acceptable. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-02-2010, 11:23 AM	#12
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	"If you're still around 150 years from now I'll tell them to look you up" Holy Cats!!That means that Norm should be about 300 years old by then. Dave, By the way "Medical Train" means a horse drawn wagon train. Not the railroad variety. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

05-01-2010, 10:06 PM	#3
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Dave, Your unit markings translate to 19. Train Batallion. Sanitats Kompagnie no.1. Waffen no.166. This was a medical column. Your gun's full serial number is on the front of the frame with a suffix below it, most likely an e. Can you post pictures? Regards, Norm

05-01-2010, 10:09 PM	#4
GoodOlDave User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, Ed. I was also toying with the idea of picking up a WWI holster for this, but if the Germans cataloged everything to the point of anal retentiveness does this mean the pistol would have been issued with a matching holster, too?

05-01-2010, 10:16 PM	#5
GoodOlDave User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Holy smoke, you people really know your s**t! Do you work at a museum, for you to know all these things? The SN is 6540, but I always thought it was a cursive L underneath it. Pics to follow...

05-01-2010, 10:42 PM	#7
GoodOlDave User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You know, it's only when you have to create pics you actually want to keep that you discover your digital camera is a POS Here are the best photos I could take with the thing-

05-01-2010, 10:52 PM	#8
GoodOlDave User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you, thank you for all your help.

05-01-2010, 11:01 PM	#9
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Dave, You have inherited a very collectible Luger. As far as I can tell from your photos, it is in original (unmessed with) condition. Regards, Norm

05-01-2010, 11:26 PM	#10
GoodOlDave User Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you, Norm. Not sure if this means anything to you, but you're helping to educate future generations. Twenty years, thirty years, fifty years from now, when my kids and grandkids hold this in their hands and learn their family history, it'll be your identification they'll be reading. If you're still around 150 years from now I'll tell them to look you up

05-03-2010, 03:32 PM	#13
Piet User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South Africa Posts: 143 Thanks: 155 Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts	Enjoy the 1911. Next year a 100 years old. I will also have a "braai" (barbeque) next year to celebrate my 1911 DWM Piet