Swiss DWM 1900

wildoats · 05-27-2010, 01:48 AM

Hi Folks,
I have a couple questions for the experts; I’m trying to correctly identify a 1900 Luger I purchased some 20 odd years ago. Originally I believed it to be a Swiss DWM 1900 commercial model, serial No. 592. Then I got it in my head it must be a Swiss Military 1900 model, but now I’m back thinking it must be commercial because of the low serial no.? I’m sure one of you can set me straight as to which it is, military or commercial. Also I’m trying to determine if the frame is relieved for the magazine or not, maybe someone can tell me what I’m looking for and where to look? Finally stamped on the right side of the frame in the center behind the magazine under the grips letters & numbers KD13466, I’ve not read anywhere what this could be or what it might mean. Any insight to this stamping? All numbers are matching, including the grips. Magazine is not numbered. Swiss cross in the sunburst. I am thinking condition is between 96% and 98%, the only wear to bluing I see is front and rear straps and the front edge of the muzzle where it was probably holstered.

thanks,
Mark

Photos in my photobucket;

Edward Tinker · 05-27-2010, 02:15 AM

You should have pictures of the serial number.

Dwight will be interested in this.

From what he has told me and I remember; the Swiss bought commericial 1900's for their military, these were straight out of intial 1900 production. They later bought them in a swiss military range (a serial range just for them).

My gut feeling is that this is a low serial number commercial for Swiss military.

Its amazing condition always makes me feel suspect of its orginality (no offense and not saying it is restored or anything).

Welcome to the forum!

Ed

Ron Wood · 05-27-2010, 02:24 AM

Swiss military serial numbers started at #1. Need to see clear photos of the left side of the receiver and bottom of the barrel to determine if this gun is military or commercial.

The magazine appears to be of the early flat button type but we would need to see the other side of the magazine to tell for sure. The frame has been relieved for the later type of magazine.

The KD13466 is very interesting. I have never seen anything like it before.

Beautiful gun.

Edward Tinker · 05-27-2010, 02:30 AM

Also, any proofing on the gun, i.e. BUG proofed etc

Ed

John Sabato · 05-27-2010, 10:33 AM

ABSOLUTELY AMAZING condition...

Lugerdoc · 05-27-2010, 11:11 AM

Mark, Check the left side of your receiver for a cross over an inspector's letter. I will be there, if it was military accepted. I suspect the the number under your right grip, indicates a repair, most likely a new recoil spring installed. The Swiss had a regular restoration program in effect for their military lugers, even those owned privately by officers, of redoing the finish when they showed any wear. That's why most Swiss luger are in such exc condition. TH

Ron Wood · 05-27-2010, 12:30 PM

Tom,
A piece as early as this one might have only a cross on the receiver without the inspectors letter if it is a military. If commercial, it will have BUG proofs.

wildoats · 05-27-2010, 03:05 PM

Thank you all for your input! Obviously I need to sharpen my camera skills and get some better photos. I'll work on that in the next day or two and try to post better photos. I don't see any proof markings other than the small swiss cross, no letters or numbers other than the serial's. I recall reading one factory had large numbering and another had small numbering, this serial No. is the smaller lettering. More to come!

thanks again,
Mark

Edward Tinker · 05-27-2010, 04:47 PM

1900's were ONLY made by DWM, so no difference in the numbers...

MFC · 05-27-2010, 05:22 PM

The first production Luger DWM made was a Swiss military contract, serial#1. Commercial production (with BUG proofs) started sometime later.

drbuster · 05-28-2010, 12:43 PM

Checking the photobucket link, there are obvious Geneva Crosses stamped on the back of the frame and left receiver, pegging this fine 1900 Swiss as "military"!

Ron Wood · 05-28-2010, 02:28 PM

Tom and Doc are correct, it is positively military. It is a superlative gun with excellent early features, i.e. Type I flat thumb safety and genuine flat button magazine. The frame has been relieved for the later type magazine, but this is of small consequence. The magazine alone would have the value of a good shooter Luger. It is a delight to see such a noteworthy example. Thank you for sharing.

wildoats · 05-31-2010, 02:07 AM

Hi Fella's,
I've posted new / different photos of my Luger, hopefully they will show better detail. Again
I find my camera skills are lacking. ;o(
Ron, you tell me the frame has been relieved for the later type of magazine, I'm not sure what
to look for to see this. Can you elaborate please, what am I looking for?

thanks,
Mark

alanint · 05-31-2010, 03:23 AM

In Ron's great photo of two side by side magazine wells posted above, look at the right hand gun at about 10 oclock in the mag well opening. You will see a cut there that is not present in the left hand gun's mag well.

This cut allowed a larger magazine button to slide into the gun.

wildoats · 05-31-2010, 05:38 PM

Excellent, thank you "alanint" for the explanation. I've learned something new today!

Mark

05-27-2010, 02:15 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	You should have pictures of the serial number. Dwight will be interested in this. From what he has told me and I remember; the Swiss bought commericial 1900's for their military, these were straight out of intial 1900 production. They later bought them in a swiss military range (a serial range just for them). My gut feeling is that this is a low serial number commercial for Swiss military. Its amazing condition always makes me feel suspect of its orginality (no offense and not saying it is restored or anything). Welcome to the forum! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-27-2010, 02:24 AM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Swiss military serial numbers started at #1. Need to see clear photos of the left side of the receiver and bottom of the barrel to determine if this gun is military or commercial. The magazine appears to be of the early flat button type but we would need to see the other side of the magazine to tell for sure. The frame has been relieved for the later type of magazine. The KD13466 is very interesting. I have never seen anything like it before. Beautiful gun. Attached Thumbnails __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

05-27-2010, 10:33 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	ABSOLUTELY AMAZING condition... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-27-2010, 11:11 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Mark, Check the left side of your receiver for a cross over an inspector's letter. I will be there, if it was military accepted. I suspect the the number under your right grip, indicates a repair, most likely a new recoil spring installed. The Swiss had a regular restoration program in effect for their military lugers, even those owned privately by officers, of redoing the finish when they showed any wear. That's why most Swiss luger are in such exc condition. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]

05-27-2010, 12:30 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Tom, A piece as early as this one might have only a cross on the receiver without the inspectors letter if it is a military. If commercial, it will have BUG proofs. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

05-27-2010, 01:48 AM	#1
wildoats New User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Swiss DWM 1900 Hi Folks, I have a couple questions for the experts; I’m trying to correctly identify a 1900 Luger I purchased some 20 odd years ago. Originally I believed it to be a Swiss DWM 1900 commercial model, serial No. 592. Then I got it in my head it must be a Swiss Military 1900 model, but now I’m back thinking it must be commercial because of the low serial no.? I’m sure one of you can set me straight as to which it is, military or commercial. Also I’m trying to determine if the frame is relieved for the magazine or not, maybe someone can tell me what I’m looking for and where to look? Finally stamped on the right side of the frame in the center behind the magazine under the grips letters & numbers KD13466, I’ve not read anywhere what this could be or what it might mean. Any insight to this stamping? All numbers are matching, including the grips. Magazine is not numbered. Swiss cross in the sunburst. I am thinking condition is between 96% and 98%, the only wear to bluing I see is front and rear straps and the front edge of the muzzle where it was probably holstered. thanks, Mark Photos in my photobucket; Last edited by wildoats; 05-31-2010 at 01:58 AM. Reason: new photos

05-27-2010, 02:30 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Also, any proofing on the gun, i.e. BUG proofed etc Ed

05-27-2010, 03:05 PM	#8
wildoats New User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you all for your input! Obviously I need to sharpen my camera skills and get some better photos. I'll work on that in the next day or two and try to post better photos. I don't see any proof markings other than the small swiss cross, no letters or numbers other than the serial's. I recall reading one factory had large numbering and another had small numbering, this serial No. is the smaller lettering. More to come! thanks again, Mark

05-27-2010, 04:47 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	1900's were ONLY made by DWM, so no difference in the numbers...

05-27-2010, 05:22 PM	#10
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	The first production Luger DWM made was a Swiss military contract, serial#1. Commercial production (with BUG proofs) started sometime later. __________________ Mike C.

05-28-2010, 12:43 PM	#11
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Checking the photobucket link, there are obvious Geneva Crosses stamped on the back of the frame and left receiver, pegging this fine 1900 Swiss as "military"!

05-28-2010, 02:28 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,179 Times in 1,703 Posts	Tom and Doc are correct, it is positively military. It is a superlative gun with excellent early features, i.e. Type I flat thumb safety and genuine flat button magazine. The frame has been relieved for the later type magazine, but this is of small consequence. The magazine alone would have the value of a good shooter Luger. It is a delight to see such a noteworthy example. Thank you for sharing. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction Last edited by Ron Wood; 05-31-2010 at 06:29 PM.

05-31-2010, 02:07 AM	#13
wildoats New User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Fella's, I've posted new / different photos of my Luger, hopefully they will show better detail. Again I find my camera skills are lacking. ;o( Ron, you tell me the frame has been relieved for the later type of magazine, I'm not sure what to look for to see this. Can you elaborate please, what am I looking for? thanks, Mark

05-31-2010, 03:23 AM	#14
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	In Ron's great photo of two side by side magazine wells posted above, look at the right hand gun at about 10 oclock in the mag well opening. You will see a cut there that is not present in the left hand gun's mag well. This cut allowed a larger magazine button to slide into the gun.

05-31-2010, 05:38 PM	#15
wildoats New User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Excellent, thank you "alanint" for the explanation. I've learned something new today! Mark