Is the Luger a 'dead' topic in the gun magazine?

Jasta2 · 09-13-2010, 01:15 PM

Is the Luger a 'dead' topic in gun circles? Has it been reduced to a gun of intrest to only the die hard Luger fans? I would think not at the great intrest any Luger brings when one shows up at a gun shop for sale and at quickly they sell despite their condition. There is no doubt that the Colt 1911 is worth the praise it gets. Every gun magazine seems to have a new, souped up version of the 1911 on it's cover and the poor old Luger only gets a mention, and a short one at that, when a magazine gives a nod to 'surplus' military pistols. In the two major book stores I visit, not a Luger book can ever be found, but always 1911 books and others are in plent supply.The Luger and the 1911 being born basicly in the same era and used in WW1 and that generation of servicemen and by WW2 the 1911 was in great use and the Luger was a 2nd line pistol, though highly prised bring home throphy, and it that generation the most intrest is found. It looks as if the shooters of today, being brought up mainly on the 1911, look at the Luger as little more than a 'curiousity' or a expensive collector item. Some thirty somethings I was chatting with the other day had the opinion that the Luger was very unrelable. There might be 'some' truth to that compaired to all the 1911s, Sigs,Hks,Glocks,ect. I think the Luger looks to be forgotten, unless one comes up for sale!!

Mauser720 · 09-13-2010, 01:44 PM

Well, this is not an easy topic.

The Colt Government Model is easy to work on and it costs less to manufacture than the Luger. I suspect that the reduced cost in manufacturing a Government Model and the many clones that now exist is one of the main reasons the Luger is not still being manufactured.

The Luger is by comparison a more complicated pistol.

And there are plenty of after market "do it yourself" modifications that can be made to the Government Model with no special tools required. Special grips, extend slide release, extended safety, ported barrel bushings, various sight configurations, choice of blued steel versus stainless steel after market parts, etc., etc., etc.

On the other hand, an "off the shelf" Luger can be expected to be a lot more accurate than an "off the shelf" Colt Government Model .45. Typically, an "off the shelf" Government Model is "as loose as a goose" compared to the close fitting of the Luger's parts. Sure it can be made more accurate; however, right "off the shelf" it does not have a reputation as being an accurate hand gun.

This looseness, (for example around the barrel bushing) means a sacrifice in accuracy; however, the Government Model can get a lot dirtier and still keep on functioning too. In a combat environment this ability to get very dirty and still function is a postive attribute.

I do not think anyone would disagree that the natural pointing abilities of the Luger are superior to those of the Government Model.

And it is worth noting that the 9mm Luger cartridge is now the handgun cartridge of choice for many of the world's modern armies.

Jasta2 · 09-13-2010, 02:09 PM

Yes! I forgot about the 9mm story and how it came to be. Many of my younger friends think that the 9mm was just made for the US military to use to replace the .45 Colt!

Vlim · 09-13-2010, 02:22 PM

Not bad. They may also think that the P38 is a copy of the Beretta 92

I don't think it's that bad. In Germany, as well as the rest of Europe the Parabellum is alive and kicking, although it has passed from 'shooter gun' to 'collector gun'. There are a couple of die hard P08 shooters around over here, including former Mauser Jagdwaffen manager Prof. Dr. Gminder and yours truly.

I'm still explaining to people that the strength of the toggle is quite ok, that reduced loads are not necessary and that most problems are caused by worn out magazines instead. The only gun that comes close to reliability of my shooter P08 is the club's Glock 17. The P08 is way more accurate, though.

nukem556 · 09-13-2010, 02:37 PM

hey, Vlim...whats the story on that rear sight on the pictured Luger?

Vlim · 09-13-2010, 02:41 PM

Lol, I wondered if anyone would notice

It is an experimental rear sight developed by Mauser engineer and quality assurance guy Otto Repa. He developed the sight (and accompanying modifications to the rear toggle piece) in order to see whether it was possible to create a 2-piece sports sight.

The idea was quite good, the rear sight is held in place by the toggle pin, through 2 cut-outs in the rear toggle part. The problem is that the rear toggle has to be machined to very exact specification, otherwise the sight will bounce up on recoil. This is why Mauser eventually chose to create a completely new rear toggle part for their Parabellum Sports pistols.

paid4c4 · 09-13-2010, 05:05 PM

I think you don't ready much about Lugers in gun mags because so many of the mags are for kids wearing camo throwing death stars and packing black guns. Lugers are to expensive for many younger gun owners and doesn't get much press coverage, IMHO of course.
Bill

nukem556 · 09-13-2010, 06:05 PM

very neat, Vlim...you know its always baffled me, whether Luger, Mauser rifle etc....the Germans always put much effort into engineering and great quality, and then put those miniscule, afterthought v sights on....go figure

wlyon · 09-13-2010, 07:53 PM

Collector firearms are never going to get the press of carry guns, hunting guns etc. We go by trends. Right now the big thing is 45 clones in all sizes. You also do not see many articles on the original 1911 45's. Just remember that the more publicity the higher the prices. Maybe fine if you are selling not so good for buying. Bill

lugerholsterrepair · 09-13-2010, 08:54 PM

I agree with Bill...Lugers have a mystique that will last. They are a pistol with genuine history and enough variety to keep collectors busy for decades to come.

Go to a range with a .45 and it's ho hum. Show up with a stocked Artillery and it's a crowd pleaser! Like going to the prom with the girl next door or showing up with a super model. Yeah, we're all going to marry the girl next door but heads turn when you break out the Lugers!

I love a .45...I have several and they are dream shooters. BUT, they ain't a Luger and that's that.

Where will the subsequent future collectors go? I care and I don't care. They are what I like and what I find fascinating and I will enjoy mine untill I don't anymore. I would bet though that the mystique and the history will continue to attract collectors fo many years to come.

Jerry Burney

mrerick · 09-13-2010, 10:01 PM

Don't forget the money cycle associated with trade magazines.

Advertisers and subscribers fund magazine publishing.

Writers create articles that are pleasing to BOTH. Writers like getting new stuff (usually on loan) from manufacturers.

Subscribers buy the magazines because of the articles.

Advertisers support the magazines because of the readers who buy from the dealers.

Dealers give feedback to the advertisers and the magazines.

In the case of the Luger, nobody is in the role of advertiser. There goes half the motivation for the writer, and most of the motivation for the magazine to cover Luger technology.

If I'm not mistaken, the last time the magazines took interest in the Luger was when Mauser was working on new and rebuilt ones...

Marc

lugerholsterrepair · 09-13-2010, 10:20 PM

Marc, Good point! I quit "Guns & Ammo" Years ago because their magazine was full of NEW guns rather than the Old Military articles I like. Guess I am officially getting old...

I would bet though that the mystique and the history will continue to attract collectors fo many years to come.

Remember July 28, 2014 is the 100 year anniversary of the beginning of WW1.

Jerry Burney

rolandtg · 09-13-2010, 11:16 PM

A twenty-something co-worker of mine recently bought a Smith & Wesson 9mm auto because it was "plastic and looked cool".

Kids have no sense of history anymore........and they won't stay off my lawn.

tomaustin · 09-13-2010, 11:23 PM

...

mrerick · 09-13-2010, 11:32 PM

I think that print magazines are generally in decline, with a few exceptions.

Online media are starting to dominate because of all the great capabilities they add to the consumer experience.

This forum site (and others) represent a community, and this and other Luger sites periodically provide updated and new reference articles. In some of my early studies of online media, we found that regular content creation and refinement were the keys to keeping people coming back, and attracting new visitors.

The new active social media has subsequently changed this transaction quite a bit. Since users are self organizing and generating their own content, the role of a "publisher" has very much changed.

Social media sites like "Facebook" (aka "Crackbook" at my office) can be quite compelling. It might be worth embracing such services to help route visitors here...

Marc

alanint · 09-14-2010, 07:03 AM

My question would be, do you really want that negative "noise to signal" ratio?

I find that when things are a little tedious to locate, only the people who really want to be there show up.
I have seen other sites get completely dragged down by trolls, wanabees, mouth breathers, bottom feeders, droolers, trouble makers, etc.

I'm not sure the site moderators here want all that excitement

tau-delt · 09-14-2010, 11:12 AM

Doug... I believe that group was at a local gun show this past weekend.......

alanint · 09-14-2010, 01:22 PM

You haven't lived until you've seen a South Florida gun show. Makes me almost want to campaign for stronger gun legislation!

Ardennes · 09-14-2010, 09:34 PM

It sounds like alanint has met my in-laws.

09-13-2010, 01:15 PM	#1
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Is the Luger a 'dead' topic in the gun magazine? Is the Luger a 'dead' topic in gun circles? Has it been reduced to a gun of intrest to only the die hard Luger fans? I would think not at the great intrest any Luger brings when one shows up at a gun shop for sale and at quickly they sell despite their condition. There is no doubt that the Colt 1911 is worth the praise it gets. Every gun magazine seems to have a new, souped up version of the 1911 on it's cover and the poor old Luger only gets a mention, and a short one at that, when a magazine gives a nod to 'surplus' military pistols. In the two major book stores I visit, not a Luger book can ever be found, but always 1911 books and others are in plent supply.The Luger and the 1911 being born basicly in the same era and used in WW1 and that generation of servicemen and by WW2 the 1911 was in great use and the Luger was a 2nd line pistol, though highly prised bring home throphy, and it that generation the most intrest is found. It looks as if the shooters of today, being brought up mainly on the 1911, look at the Luger as little more than a 'curiousity' or a expensive collector item. Some thirty somethings I was chatting with the other day had the opinion that the Luger was very unrelable. There might be 'some' truth to that compaired to all the 1911s, Sigs,Hks,Glocks,ect. I think the Luger looks to be forgotten, unless one comes up for sale!! Last edited by Jasta2; 09-13-2010 at 01:20 PM. Reason: rewriting a few lines

09-13-2010, 01:44 PM	#2
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Well, this is not an easy topic. The Colt Government Model is easy to work on and it costs less to manufacture than the Luger. I suspect that the reduced cost in manufacturing a Government Model and the many clones that now exist is one of the main reasons the Luger is not still being manufactured. The Luger is by comparison a more complicated pistol. And there are plenty of after market "do it yourself" modifications that can be made to the Government Model with no special tools required. Special grips, extend slide release, extended safety, ported barrel bushings, various sight configurations, choice of blued steel versus stainless steel after market parts, etc., etc., etc. On the other hand, an "off the shelf" Luger can be expected to be a lot more accurate than an "off the shelf" Colt Government Model .45. Typically, an "off the shelf" Government Model is "as loose as a goose" compared to the close fitting of the Luger's parts. Sure it can be made more accurate; however, right "off the shelf" it does not have a reputation as being an accurate hand gun. This looseness, (for example around the barrel bushing) means a sacrifice in accuracy; however, the Government Model can get a lot dirtier and still keep on functioning too. In a combat environment this ability to get very dirty and still function is a postive attribute. I do not think anyone would disagree that the natural pointing abilities of the Luger are superior to those of the Government Model. And it is worth noting that the 9mm Luger cartridge is now the handgun cartridge of choice for many of the world's modern armies. __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

09-13-2010, 02:22 PM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Not bad. They may also think that the P38 is a copy of the Beretta 92 I don't think it's that bad. In Germany, as well as the rest of Europe the Parabellum is alive and kicking, although it has passed from 'shooter gun' to 'collector gun'. There are a couple of die hard P08 shooters around over here, including former Mauser Jagdwaffen manager Prof. Dr. Gminder and yours truly. I'm still explaining to people that the strength of the toggle is quite ok, that reduced loads are not necessary and that most problems are caused by worn out magazines instead. The only gun that comes close to reliability of my shooter P08 is the club's Glock 17. The P08 is way more accurate, though. Attached Thumbnails

09-13-2010, 02:37 PM	#5
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	hmm hey, Vlim...whats the story on that rear sight on the pictured Luger?

09-13-2010, 02:41 PM	#6
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Lol, I wondered if anyone would notice It is an experimental rear sight developed by Mauser engineer and quality assurance guy Otto Repa. He developed the sight (and accompanying modifications to the rear toggle piece) in order to see whether it was possible to create a 2-piece sports sight. The idea was quite good, the rear sight is held in place by the toggle pin, through 2 cut-outs in the rear toggle part. The problem is that the rear toggle has to be machined to very exact specification, otherwise the sight will bounce up on recoil. This is why Mauser eventually chose to create a completely new rear toggle part for their Parabellum Sports pistols. Attached Thumbnails

09-13-2010, 02:09 PM	#3
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Yes! I forgot about the 9mm story and how it came to be. Many of my younger friends think that the 9mm was just made for the US military to use to replace the .45 Colt!

09-13-2010, 05:05 PM	#7
paid4c4 User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Northern Kentucky Posts: 62 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts	I think you don't ready much about Lugers in gun mags because so many of the mags are for kids wearing camo throwing death stars and packing black guns. Lugers are to expensive for many younger gun owners and doesn't get much press coverage, IMHO of course. Bill

09-13-2010, 06:05 PM	#8
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	very neat, Vlim...you know its always baffled me, whether Luger, Mauser rifle etc....the Germans always put much effort into engineering and great quality, and then put those miniscule, afterthought v sights on....go figure

09-13-2010, 07:53 PM	#9
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,637 Thanks: 3,174 Thanked 2,561 Times in 956 Posts	Collector firearms are never going to get the press of carry guns, hunting guns etc. We go by trends. Right now the big thing is 45 clones in all sizes. You also do not see many articles on the original 1911 45's. Just remember that the more publicity the higher the prices. Maybe fine if you are selling not so good for buying. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

09-13-2010, 08:54 PM	#10
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	I agree with Bill...Lugers have a mystique that will last. They are a pistol with genuine history and enough variety to keep collectors busy for decades to come. Go to a range with a .45 and it's ho hum. Show up with a stocked Artillery and it's a crowd pleaser! Like going to the prom with the girl next door or showing up with a super model. Yeah, we're all going to marry the girl next door but heads turn when you break out the Lugers! I love a .45...I have several and they are dream shooters. BUT, they ain't a Luger and that's that. Where will the subsequent future collectors go? I care and I don't care. They are what I like and what I find fascinating and I will enjoy mine untill I don't anymore. I would bet though that the mystique and the history will continue to attract collectors fo many years to come. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-13-2010, 10:01 PM	#11
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Don't forget the money cycle associated with trade magazines. Advertisers and subscribers fund magazine publishing. Writers create articles that are pleasing to BOTH. Writers like getting new stuff (usually on loan) from manufacturers. Subscribers buy the magazines because of the articles. Advertisers support the magazines because of the readers who buy from the dealers. Dealers give feedback to the advertisers and the magazines. In the case of the Luger, nobody is in the role of advertiser. There goes half the motivation for the writer, and most of the motivation for the magazine to cover Luger technology. If I'm not mistaken, the last time the magazines took interest in the Luger was when Mauser was working on new and rebuilt ones... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-13-2010, 10:20 PM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Marc, Good point! I quit "Guns & Ammo" Years ago because their magazine was full of NEW guns rather than the Old Military articles I like. Guess I am officially getting old... I would bet though that the mystique and the history will continue to attract collectors fo many years to come. Remember July 28, 2014 is the 100 year anniversary of the beginning of WW1. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-13-2010, 11:16 PM	#13
rolandtg User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 477 Thanks: 380 Thanked 258 Times in 113 Posts	A twenty-something co-worker of mine recently bought a Smith & Wesson 9mm auto because it was "plastic and looked cool". Kids have no sense of history anymore........and they won't stay off my lawn.

09-13-2010, 11:23 PM	#14
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	rolandtg, lugers are great lawn jockeys..blaze away... ...

09-13-2010, 11:32 PM	#15
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	I think that print magazines are generally in decline, with a few exceptions. Online media are starting to dominate because of all the great capabilities they add to the consumer experience. This forum site (and others) represent a community, and this and other Luger sites periodically provide updated and new reference articles. In some of my early studies of online media, we found that regular content creation and refinement were the keys to keeping people coming back, and attracting new visitors. The new active social media has subsequently changed this transaction quite a bit. Since users are self organizing and generating their own content, the role of a "publisher" has very much changed. Social media sites like "Facebook" (aka "Crackbook" at my office) can be quite compelling. It might be worth embracing such services to help route visitors here... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-14-2010, 07:03 AM	#16
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	My question would be, do you really want that negative "noise to signal" ratio? I find that when things are a little tedious to locate, only the people who really want to be there show up. I have seen other sites get completely dragged down by trolls, wanabees, mouth breathers, bottom feeders, droolers, trouble makers, etc. I'm not sure the site moderators here want all that excitement Last edited by alanint; 09-14-2010 at 01:19 PM.

09-14-2010, 11:12 AM	#17
tau-delt User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts	Doug... I believe that group was at a local gun show this past weekend....... __________________ dave

09-14-2010, 01:22 PM	#18
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	You haven't lived until you've seen a South Florida gun show. Makes me almost want to campaign for stronger gun legislation! Last edited by alanint; 09-14-2010 at 11:20 PM.

09-14-2010, 09:34 PM	#19
Ardennes User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It sounds like alanint has met my in-laws.