Blank Toggle DWM/BKIW Lugers

[Don M]

I'll leave the value question up to others.

The white plastic grips were definitely not original. I'm not sure what you mean about a dimple but I do not see evidence in your photos of the slot that was cut in frames above the left grip to accommodate a magazine safety. This is a bit unusual since most of the Lugers issued to the LJ were fitted with both sear and magazine safeties. It is possible that yours had one that was removed and the slot very skillfully filled in. One certain way to tell is to remover the side plate and see if there is a 1/4" hole drilled through the frame above the trigger. If not, it never had a mag safety. Even if it never had one, that is rare but OK.

[Lugerdoc]

Don Maus, As I recall a few of the s & t suffix blank toggle lugers that I've owned over the years has the suffix letter on the frame overstamped with a crown. You may want to ask about this on your request for info list. This will also lead to the further questions: whoses crown is it? and were they overstamped at BKIW or later? TH

[Don M]

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

Don Maus, As I recall a few of the s & t suffix blank toggle lugers that I've owned over the years has the suffix letter on the frame overstamped with a crown. You may want to ask about this on your request for info list. This will also lead to the further questions: whoses crown is it? and were they overstamped at BKIW or later? TH

Tom, although I have not created a database specifically for these, I have noted quite a few of them over the years. While it is not possible for me to be sure, examination of the ones thought to have an overstamped "s" has led me to conclude they probably are "t" and that only this suffix is found overstamped with a crown. (However, this is not a particulary critical conclusion.)

I am really at a loss to explain these overstamps. The pistols I have observed were issued to a wide range of police forces which suggests that the only locations they could have been overstamped were either the factory or the police purchasing agency. I can't imagine their ever being reunited and overstamped after they were distributed.

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by Jamka

Ron,

So far I have worked through the first two volumes of Görtz - Sturgess masterwork. I believe that the Riff contract is not mentioned. It might be discussed in Volume III, but this last part of the book merely describes the accessories of the Parabellum pistol.

The "August Weiss Files" I refer to in our book were given to me by Prof. Dr. Rolf Gminder. He received them from August Weiss, a few months before Mr. Weiss passed away in 1980. As Mr. Weiss had no notes about the Riff contract in his dairies, it might well be that Görtz - Sturgess did not have this information.

Best regards,
Joop van de Kant
Co- author of "The Mauser Parabellum 1930-1946"

Actually, it is discussed as i remember seeing it, but not in the depth of your book. There is more info on 'blank toggles' and that is all that is mentioned.

The lack of a time line order of items makes some things hard to find.

Ed

[Don M]

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

Don Maus, As I recall a few of the s & t suffix blank toggle lugers that I've owned over the years has the suffix letter on the frame overstamped with a crown. You may want to ask about this on your request for info list. This will also lead to the further questions: whoses crown is it? and were they overstamped at BKIW or later? TH

Tom's post got me curious. I looked through my database and found six 29 DWM Lugers with suffixes overstamped with a crown. Here are the results:

*Three original suffixes are definitely t and three are somewhat uncertain but could be t.

*Three have blank toggles and three have DWM logos.

*Two have sear safeties and four do not.

*Five were issued to Prussian police schools (three different schools) and one to the Prussian Landjägerei.

I'm still not sure what to make of this but do find the preponderance of police school Lugers curious.

It needs to be recognized that my database contains only police-marked pistols. If there are overstamped Lugers that do not have police markings, I would not have recorded them.

[Lugerdoc]

Don, Thanks for the follow up on these. I had always imagined that the overstamped suffix lugers were a contract of some kind (possibly Riff) but not delivered, since they ended up going to various police agencies. TH

[Don M]

Tom, I too thought about the Riff Contract possibility but the fact that the reported examples have DWM as well as blank toggles has discouraged that thought.