East German Luger - Page 2

Michael Zeleny · 07-20-2011, 04:03 AM

I propose an experiment. Randall Gibson's claim that Krieghoff Lugers had their parts fully finished before fitting is belied by SNs 3249 and 8551, where the sideplate of the former can be fitted on the latter, but not the other way around. With both pistols assembled, there is a nil clearance between the frame and the bottom edge of the sideplate. Neither sideplate manifests any discernible looseness when mounted on the pistol. For the sake of making a comparison, I suggest trying to swap sideplates between two Mauser Parabellums, and reporting their frame fit clearances.

Vlim · 07-20-2011, 03:57 PM

Michael,

I like the approach. I have a few of them here and will make comparisons. I did at the time test the exchangeability of the P08, MP and 06/29 parts and that went quite well.

Michael Zeleny · 07-20-2011, 04:32 PM

P06/29 71644 and P06/29 77493, both barely used: original sideplates mount easily and fit tight; interchange with difficulty in latching. The cannon of the former fits on the latter; the cannon of the latter is too tight on the former.

P06/29 National Match 59951 heavy 180mm barrel, very tight and presumably unfired, and P06/29 National Match 65721 pencil 200mm barrel, showing some target shooting use: original sideplates mount easily and fit tight; interchange easily with tight fit. The cannon of the former is too tight on the latter; the cannon of the latter fits on the former.

Dwight Gruber · 07-28-2011, 06:38 PM

Getting back to the original post here, the pistol on eGun is interesting in that it is not one of the N-series pistols. It is quite a conundrum. The 1001 designation on the left frame and the two-digit serial number suggest that this was a production pistol after the N-series serial numbers; there are two or three other examples reported. It is noteworthy that there are no East German inspection stamps or proofs visible on the gun.

--Dwight

mecano44 · 07-29-2011, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swissdagger

You can collect what ever you want but
a cheap,mismatched VOPO Luger is always a better shooter and a more valuable collector piece as one of the new Mausers from the seventies and eighties or a Mitchell Arms Luger.
After 25 years in the gun business I know if I see junk,
for that I have not to read any books.
In the last years I sold maybe 20 or 30 of such new made Mausers.
High glossy polished junk is still junk.
Sorry, my english is still not the best......

I would be careful to write this kind of opinion....you just have a 06/73 and a Vopo to sell....and the price of the first one is twice that of the second ........

Vlim · 07-29-2011, 01:05 PM

Dwight, good observation. A little theory of mine is that new frames (and even new pistols) were used to replace existing pistols that were damaged beyond repair, copying the dead gun's serial number onto the new one to keep fuss and paperwork to a minimum.

You may say it is far fetched to think that something like that would take place (I did), but after noting several examples of guns that were replaced by Mauser in this way, I think it has some merit.

Wilhelm · 07-30-2011, 04:37 AM

Speaking of serial no's, what do you guys think the deal is with the serial number on this Eastie produced slide?

I've always assumed that the importer put it there; possibly because there were two pistols in the import shipment with the same serial number.

Vlim · 07-30-2011, 05:21 AM

I agree that the -A looks a bit weird.

Does the frame serial number have a similar marking, or does it have the classic cursive a.?

Here is a similar one, on a first issue P08 that went 'VoPo'.

Wilhelm · 07-31-2011, 12:22 AM

Actually, the frame looks like it might be a cursive "b". It's a little hard to read. Of course, it has the"x" stamp on the front of the frame as well.

Vlim · 07-31-2011, 08:04 AM

Is the -A on the receiver in the white or did you fill it in / enhance it for the photo?

Wilhelm · 07-31-2011, 11:38 AM

It's in the white. The others are enhanced for the photo.

Michael Zeleny · 08-04-2011, 10:57 AM

Price drop:
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3393554

Vlim · 08-04-2011, 03:50 PM

Price drop?

Wilhelm, since the -A is in the white, I expect that it was done in recent days. I think your assumption that it was done to make it a 'unique' number is the correct one. Nice crown/crown U markings.

Michael Zeleny · 08-04-2011, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

Price drop?

From 4,000 to 2,800 Euros. If it's an arithmetical progression, I'll bid on the fourth go-around.

Vlim · 08-04-2011, 04:57 PM

LOL, I missed the first one

Vlim · 08-07-2011, 12:21 PM

Anyway, I know the sucker who bought the #72 DDR luger, so I'll report back when it gets here.

marshombre · 08-08-2011, 01:54 PM

MZ,
Why such sour grapes on '70s Parabellums? I have two and other than crappy mags (toss 'em) and clunky grips they shoot as good as my other lugers. And yes, the blueing is glossy not matte but this isn't a military pistol.
They are what they are and most people who own them seem to be happy with their acquisition.
MR

Lugerdoc · 08-09-2011, 11:36 AM

Note to shooter: I currently have a couple of nice DDR reworked WW2 PO8 listed in the For Sale section. TH

07-20-2011, 04:03 AM	#21
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 139 Times in 76 Posts	I propose an experiment. Randall Gibson's claim that Krieghoff Lugers had their parts fully finished before fitting is belied by SNs 3249 and 8551, where the sideplate of the former can be fitted on the latter, but not the other way around. With both pistols assembled, there is a nil clearance between the frame and the bottom edge of the sideplate. Neither sideplate manifests any discernible looseness when mounted on the pistol. For the sake of making a comparison, I suggest trying to swap sideplates between two Mauser Parabellums, and reporting their frame fit clearances. __________________ Michael [email protected] -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

07-20-2011, 04:32 PM	#23
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 139 Times in 76 Posts	P06/29 71644 and P06/29 77493, both barely used: original sideplates mount easily and fit tight; interchange with difficulty in latching. The cannon of the former fits on the latter; the cannon of the latter is too tight on the former. P06/29 National Match 59951 heavy 180mm barrel, very tight and presumably unfired, and P06/29 National Match 65721 pencil 200mm barrel, showing some target shooting use: original sideplates mount easily and fit tight; interchange easily with tight fit. The cannon of the former is too tight on the latter; the cannon of the latter fits on the former. __________________ Michael [email protected] -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

07-30-2011, 04:37 AM	#27
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 358 Thanks: 45 Thanked 125 Times in 59 Posts	Speaking of serial no's, what do you guys think the deal is with the serial number on this Eastie produced slide? I've always assumed that the importer put it there; possibly because there were two pistols in the import shipment with the same serial number. __________________ [email protected] I promise to be nice and play well with others

07-30-2011, 05:21 AM	#28
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	I agree that the -A looks a bit weird. Does the frame serial number have a similar marking, or does it have the classic cursive a.? Here is a similar one, on a first issue P08 that went 'VoPo'. Attached Thumbnails

07-31-2011, 12:22 AM	#29
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 358 Thanks: 45 Thanked 125 Times in 59 Posts	Actually, the frame looks like it might be a cursive "b". It's a little hard to read. Of course, it has the"x" stamp on the front of the frame as well. __________________ [email protected] I promise to be nice and play well with others

07-20-2011, 03:57 PM	#22
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Michael, I like the approach. I have a few of them here and will make comparisons. I did at the time test the exchangeability of the P08, MP and 06/29 parts and that went quite well.

07-28-2011, 06:38 PM	#24
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Getting back to the original post here, the pistol on eGun is interesting in that it is not one of the N-series pistols. It is quite a conundrum. The 1001 designation on the left frame and the two-digit serial number suggest that this was a production pistol after the N-series serial numbers; there are two or three other examples reported. It is noteworthy that there are no East German inspection stamps or proofs visible on the gun. --Dwight

07-29-2011, 01:05 PM	#26
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Dwight, good observation. A little theory of mine is that new frames (and even new pistols) were used to replace existing pistols that were damaged beyond repair, copying the dead gun's serial number onto the new one to keep fuss and paperwork to a minimum. You may say it is far fetched to think that something like that would take place (I did), but after noting several examples of guns that were replaced by Mauser in this way, I think it has some merit.

07-31-2011, 08:04 AM	#30
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Is the -A on the receiver in the white or did you fill it in / enhance it for the photo?

07-31-2011, 11:38 AM	#31
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 358 Thanks: 45 Thanked 125 Times in 59 Posts	It's in the white. The others are enhanced for the photo. __________________ [email protected] I promise to be nice and play well with others

08-04-2011, 10:57 AM	#32
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 139 Times in 76 Posts	Price drop: http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3393554 __________________ Michael [email protected] -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

08-04-2011, 03:50 PM	#33
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Price drop? Wilhelm, since the -A is in the white, I expect that it was done in recent days. I think your assumption that it was done to make it a 'unique' number is the correct one. Nice crown/crown U markings.

08-04-2011, 04:57 PM	#35
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	LOL, I missed the first one

08-07-2011, 12:21 PM	#36
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,989 Times in 1,205 Posts	Anyway, I know the sucker who bought the #72 DDR luger, so I'll report back when it gets here.

08-08-2011, 01:54 PM	#37
marshombre User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: W Central FL Posts: 98 Thanks: 12 Thanked 20 Times in 11 Posts	MZ, Why such sour grapes on '70s Parabellums? I have two and other than crappy mags (toss 'em) and clunky grips they shoot as good as my other lugers. And yes, the blueing is glossy not matte but this isn't a military pistol. They are what they are and most people who own them seem to be happy with their acquisition. MR __________________ Tempus edax rerum

08-09-2011, 11:36 AM	#38
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Note to shooter: I currently have a couple of nice DDR reworked WW2 PO8 listed in the For Sale section. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 [email protected]