Early 1900 Swiss: Restored or Original???

Hugo Borchardt · 01-30-2013, 03:24 PM

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...=327574544#PIC

Look at the DWM on the toggle and the rear relieved frame areas that usually have the "milling marks".

The name of the company is "ARMSBLUE" at armsblue.com. Has anyone done business with them? I checked out their website. Do all of their guns show signs of refinishing?

Regards!

Clark

GySgt1811 · 01-30-2013, 06:57 PM

About 3 years ago, I bought a .32 ACP 1914 Mauser from Armsblue. Good transaction, no problems; however, bluing on the Mauser was not an issue, my Mauser appears original.

Gunny John

PS. Durn, that's purty!

Ron Wood · 01-30-2013, 07:57 PM

It is hard to say. Many Swiss Lugers were refurbed by the Swiss as part of routine periodic maintenance. It could be a modern restoration but more likely an old Swiss refurbishment or it might be original. I might opt for a refurb for two reasons: 1) I seldom see the inset frame latch for the toggle lock that is that visible, it usually blends in with the side rail with only two very light lines; 2) A piece that early would have had an unrelieved frame...this one does not as evidenced by the standard magazines, so it could have been "freshened up" when the frame was retrofitted for the raised button magazine.
Nice looking piece and not out of the ordinary finish-wise for a Swiss.

P.S. Model 1900 Lugers are among the best finished production firearms. You have to look very close to see any milling marks at all, and often there are none.

Hugo Borchardt · 01-30-2013, 08:41 PM

Model 1900 Lugers are among the best finished production firearms. You have to look very close to see any milling marks at all, and often there are none.

I still have so much to learn from the Luger Jedi Master, and the other experts on the forum. Thanks, Ron!

sheepherder · 01-30-2013, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

P.S. Model 1900 Lugers are among the best finished production firearms. You have to look very close to see any milling marks at all, and often there are none.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugo Borchardt

I still have so much to learn from the Luger Jedi Master, and the other experts on the forum. Thanks, Ron!

I just had to pull my 1900AE out and look, after reading that...

...And Ron's right, I can't find any obvious milling marks on it...And it has definitely not been refinished at any time in its life...

alvin · 01-30-2013, 09:09 PM

I guess it's repaired in the arsenal. Not a boosted one. 1900 is hard to come, and hard to go. Many sellers compete listing lower prices on the market. But it's hard to find a good one. If have a good one, need to wait one right buyer for it.

ithacaartist · 01-31-2013, 12:26 PM

Ron,
Is the extractor on a 1900 usually strawed?

Ron Wood · 01-31-2013, 01:27 PM

Yes. To expand on that short answer a bit, the extractor is really just a small flat spring with the necessary hook, lug and pin to perform its function. Being a spring it is tempered and strawed just like the ejector. Looks kinda cool too!

As an added note, I just re-read the ad and see that the breechblock is a mis-match. So although it is a very nice looking early gun, since the frame has been relieved and the gun is a mis-match the price is a bit too high. Certainly not just a shooter, but I would think a price of $3500-$4000 would be more reasonable (the magazines are easily worth $250 each and the holster another $150 or so).

Sergio Natali · 02-28-2013, 04:22 PM

There is so much to learn in this field tthat is unbelievable

01-30-2013, 03:24 PM	#1
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 340 Thanked 133 Times in 47 Posts	Early 1900 Swiss: Restored or Original??? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...=327574544#PIC Look at the DWM on the toggle and the rear relieved frame areas that usually have the "milling marks". The name of the company is "ARMSBLUE" at armsblue.com. Has anyone done business with them? I checked out their website. Do all of their guns show signs of refinishing? Regards! Clark __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

01-30-2013, 07:57 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	It is hard to say. Many Swiss Lugers were refurbed by the Swiss as part of routine periodic maintenance. It could be a modern restoration but more likely an old Swiss refurbishment or it might be original. I might opt for a refurb for two reasons: 1) I seldom see the inset frame latch for the toggle lock that is that visible, it usually blends in with the side rail with only two very light lines; 2) A piece that early would have had an unrelieved frame...this one does not as evidenced by the standard magazines, so it could have been "freshened up" when the frame was retrofitted for the raised button magazine. Nice looking piece and not out of the ordinary finish-wise for a Swiss. P.S. Model 1900 Lugers are among the best finished production firearms. You have to look very close to see any milling marks at all, and often there are none. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-30-2013, 08:41 PM	#4
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 340 Thanked 133 Times in 47 Posts	Model 1900 Lugers are among the best finished production firearms. You have to look very close to see any milling marks at all, and often there are none. I still have so much to learn from the Luger Jedi Master, and the other experts on the forum. Thanks, Ron! __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

01-31-2013, 12:26 PM	#7
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,347 Thanks: 7,285 Thanked 2,579 Times in 1,366 Posts	Ron, Is the extractor on a 1900 usually strawed? __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

01-31-2013, 01:27 PM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Yes. To expand on that short answer a bit, the extractor is really just a small flat spring with the necessary hook, lug and pin to perform its function. Being a spring it is tempered and strawed just like the ejector. Looks kinda cool too! As an added note, I just re-read the ad and see that the breechblock is a mis-match. So although it is a very nice looking early gun, since the frame has been relieved and the gun is a mis-match the price is a bit too high. Certainly not just a shooter, but I would think a price of $3500-$4000 would be more reasonable (the magazines are easily worth $250 each and the holster another $150 or so). __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction Last edited by Ron Wood; 01-31-2013 at 02:55 PM.

01-30-2013, 06:57 PM	#2
GySgt1811 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Southern Indiana Posts: 237 Thanks: 1,238 Thanked 126 Times in 84 Posts	About 3 years ago, I bought a .32 ACP 1914 Mauser from Armsblue. Good transaction, no problems; however, bluing on the Mauser was not an issue, my Mauser appears original. Gunny John PS. Durn, that's purty!

01-30-2013, 09:09 PM	#6
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I guess it's repaired in the arsenal. Not a boosted one. 1900 is hard to come, and hard to go. Many sellers compete listing lower prices on the market. But it's hard to find a good one. If have a good one, need to wait one right buyer for it.

02-28-2013, 04:22 PM	#9
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	There is so much to learn in this field tthat is unbelievable