1917 Luger Id help

Thantos · 07-28-2013, 05:22 PM

Hello All,
I am trying to gather as much correct information on this Luger I inherited from my father as I can. I have two and this is the first.

I have found that identifying a Luger correctly is not easy, as everyone seems to interpret thing a little differently. This will stay in the family and be passed down to my sons when the time comes.

Here is what I think I have, and please correct me if I am wrong, especially about the grade or value as I need these for insurance reasons.

Also can some one explain how to tell LP.08 from a P.08 or is there no difference in the term?

A WWI DWM Military:
Year:1917
Proofs :HSS
Serial#:3279
Cal:9mm Para.
Land Dia.:8,82
Grade:90%
Value:$1500.00

Thanks Gene

http://s182.photobucket.com/user/tha...rary/Luger%201

Above is a Photobucket link for very large Zoomable Pictures.

Edward Tinker · 07-28-2013, 05:31 PM

Welcome to the forum, lots of info here.

You have everything correct above, and yes, most info that is conflicting is wrong.

HUGE difference in a LP and a P08

An LP stands for lange pistolle or long pistol, issued to artillery and others but folks call them artillery.

P08 is the year that the army introduced the Parabellum, thus P08. The navy introduced it in 1904, so they are called P04 models.

The 'proofs' on the right is both acceptance and proof on the far right.

Grade determines on who says it, I would say higher, but you don't show the front and rear grip straps.

Ed

Thantos · 07-28-2013, 06:08 PM

Ed,
Thanks for the great response, here are the pics you asked for. Would you say grade is 95% or even 98%?

Thanks Gene

cirelaw · 07-28-2013, 06:36 PM

"Perfection is the ability to convience others that you are Perfect!!'

Edward Tinker · 07-28-2013, 06:38 PM

because of the freckling on the gripstraps, I would call it 92 to 94%

Anything above 95%+ (IMHO) really needs to be nice, to be 98% requires extremely nice bore and perfect everything.

lugerholsterrepair · 07-28-2013, 08:48 PM

Ed is right on the money. A very beautiful pistol. Your Father left you top grade stuff anyone would be proud to have but not 98%because of the freckling on the gripstraps, I would call it 92 to 94%
Exactly.

cirelaw · 07-28-2013, 08:59 PM

What causes "freckling" and how can it be avoided? Eric

lugerholsterrepair · 07-28-2013, 09:27 PM

Eric, Likely hand sweat, moisture or other chemical pollutants and a lack of oil and proper cleaning. Could be from holster storage in moist conditions. it is oxidation of the metal and deterioration of the bluing.

cirelaw · 07-28-2013, 09:40 PM

Jerry I've been using Renaisance Micro-Crystaline wax polish and have had great results!!!!

Frank B · 07-29-2013, 07:26 AM

Is it not hard to believe...that this bad boy is practically 100 years old? In four years...it will be, just amazing workmanship...beautiful Luger's. They may not have been the most reliable...with jams and so forth(that's why they needed cleaning often)...but they are one of the most distinctive prettiest hand guns out there.

Sergio Natali · 07-29-2013, 04:31 PM

Beautiful gun I would say it looks in very good conditions, surely it's in the same state also the inside of the barrel and under the grips; congratulations, it' must be a real pleasure to own.

Douglas Jr. · 07-29-2013, 04:44 PM

I like what I'm seeing.
It would display nicely in any collection.
Douglas.

cirelaw · 07-29-2013, 05:12 PM

Would you mind telling how you took such perfect photographs with what kind of camera you used in your first set above? Perfect!!~~~~Eric

Thantos · 07-29-2013, 08:23 PM

Thanks for the complement, I guess you could say I am a semipro photographer LOL... I do a lot of photo work with bands on the side so photography is nothing new to me.

I used a Nikon D40, (which by today's standards is a relatively low end camera now) with a couple of different lenses. The main thing is to use a controlled light source, I built a light box and diffused the heck out of it to get the lighting correct.

The light box was cheap and easy to build out of 1/2" PVC pipe and fittings I think it cost less then $12.00. Then I grabbed one of my wife's red table cloths (had to buy her a new one after I got gun oil all over it, DOH !!!) for a solid background.

For a diffuser I used clear (or opaque really) Polyethylene plastic or visquine. Using Visquine allows you to add or subtract layers for more or less diffusion of the light. As to the type of light I used three 40 watt compact DAYLIGHT florescence's and a matching florescent 4' shop light. So about 160 watts of controlled diffused exposure.

I used a Nikkor 18.5mm f/1.8 wide-angle lens with 35mm equivalent of 50mm and a Nikon 85mm f/1.4G Classic Portrait Nikkor Lens and a Nikon 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED VR II Lens (72mm) Fast glass = great pictures.

The whole set up lights, PVC and table cloth was less then $50.00 and I can take it apart and put it up as I need, oh yeah the other thing that really make a world of difference is shooting from a tripod ! ! !

The reason for all of this was that I had purchased a copy of a program called My Gun DataBase, that allows you to inventory's all of your weapons for FFL requirements, general collecting, insurance or just all around knowing what you have. With the merger of my collection and my fathers I felt it was time to have an accurate inventory for insurance purposes and obtaining my C&R FFL.

Just so everyone knows the key here really is the light box, even a cell phone camera will take amazing pictures with the right light, you don't need a high end camera or lenses, just good lighting !!!

Hope this helps if there are more questions please let me know! Here is a pic of my home made light box, kinda shabby looking but it works !

Also here is a link to MGDB if anyone else is interested.
http://cmp.mygundb.com/

Thanks, Gene

Thantos · 07-29-2013, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Jerry I've been using Renaisance Micro-Crystaline wax polish and have had great results!!!!

By using this wax it will remove the stains in the bluing?

cirelaw · 07-29-2013, 08:39 PM

You definitly have got it all together. Your knowledge and ambition really show it off. The Ansel Adams of luger photography. Lighting and a proffesional equipment are the key! Thanks for the tips~~~~Eric

CAP Black · 07-29-2013, 11:37 PM

Eric:

I use the Renaissance wax for lots of gun purposes but I am concerned about it taking off the patina - apparently you aren't having the problem. I use it in the barrel and internal parts of Lugers but not the exterior bluing.
I have been cautious because I hadn't heard the old timers say how it reacts to Lugers
thanks
Jack

cirelaw · 07-30-2013, 08:56 AM

Scary, I'll have to read the prior posts on this topic! TKS

RC20 · 08-02-2013, 11:15 PM

Wonderful pics,

Throwing in my less that expert 2 cents worth so anyone feel free to correct me.

You will also want to check all the small parts and the numbers to see if they match up. There is a list of those in the facts group, one of the hard ones has got it on top (extractor), I had to pull my extractor to find out as it was underneath (most military Lugers are visible). Firing pin which is actually larger round assembly than than you think when you think firing pin is a hard one to see and being curved makes it interesting (or was for me and I had to clean some gunk out)

The magazine is serialed but not the same as the pistol if I am reading it right (not a problem but it is an extra if it does). Looks like the right wooden one for the era.

If it has all matching numbers (last two of the serial on the small parts) then it has more value.

I would guess more than $1500, looks more like $2000 minimum. Wonderful condition overall. Even well cared for ones got more field wear and tear before they got put away so thats amazing.

07-28-2013, 05:22 PM	#1
Thantos User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	1917 Luger Id help Hello All, I am trying to gather as much correct information on this Luger I inherited from my father as I can. I have two and this is the first. I have found that identifying a Luger correctly is not easy, as everyone seems to interpret thing a little differently. This will stay in the family and be passed down to my sons when the time comes. Here is what I think I have, and please correct me if I am wrong, especially about the grade or value as I need these for insurance reasons. Also can some one explain how to tell LP.08 from a P.08 or is there no difference in the term? A WWI DWM Military: Year:1917 Proofs :HSS Serial#:3279 Cal:9mm Para. Land Dia.:8,82 Grade:90% Value:$1500.00 Thanks Gene http://s182.photobucket.com/user/tha...rary/Luger%201 Above is a Photobucket link for very large Zoomable Pictures. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Thantos; 07-28-2013 at 05:30 PM. Reason: Added Photobucket link

07-28-2013, 05:31 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	Welcome to the forum, lots of info here. You have everything correct above, and yes, most info that is conflicting is wrong. HUGE difference in a LP and a P08 An LP stands for lange pistolle or long pistol, issued to artillery and others but folks call them artillery. P08 is the year that the army introduced the Parabellum, thus P08. The navy introduced it in 1904, so they are called P04 models. The 'proofs' on the right is both acceptance and proof on the far right. Grade determines on who says it, I would say higher, but you don't show the front and rear grip straps. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-28-2013, 06:08 PM	#3
Thantos User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ed, Thanks for the great response, here are the pics you asked for. Would you say grade is 95% or even 98%? Thanks Gene Attached Thumbnails

07-28-2013, 08:48 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Ed is right on the money. A very beautiful pistol. Your Father left you top grade stuff anyone would be proud to have but not 98%because of the freckling on the gripstraps, I would call it 92 to 94% Exactly. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-28-2013, 09:27 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,940 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Eric, Likely hand sweat, moisture or other chemical pollutants and a lack of oil and proper cleaning. Could be from holster storage in moist conditions. it is oxidation of the metal and deterioration of the bluing. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 l[email protected] 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-28-2013, 06:36 PM	#4
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	"Perfection is the ability to convience others that you are Perfect!!'

07-28-2013, 06:38 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,935 Thanks: 2,034 Thanked 4,533 Times in 2,093 Posts	because of the freckling on the gripstraps, I would call it 92 to 94% Anything above 95%+ (IMHO) really needs to be nice, to be 98% requires extremely nice bore and perfect everything.

07-28-2013, 08:59 PM	#7
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	What causes "freckling" and how can it be avoided? Eric

07-28-2013, 09:40 PM	#9
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Jerry I've been using Renaisance Micro-Crystaline wax polish and have had great results!!!!

07-29-2013, 07:26 AM	#10
Frank B User Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Augusta GA, aus Berlin...:) Posts: 78 Thanks: 20 Thanked 30 Times in 12 Posts	Is it not hard to believe...that this bad boy is practically 100 years old? In four years...it will be, just amazing workmanship...beautiful Luger's. They may not have been the most reliable...with jams and so forth(that's why they needed cleaning often)...but they are one of the most distinctive prettiest hand guns out there. __________________ "Man muss manchmal in den sauren Apfel beißen"

07-29-2013, 04:31 PM	#11
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Beautiful gun I would say it looks in very good conditions, surely it's in the same state also the inside of the barrel and under the grips; congratulations, it' must be a real pleasure to own.

07-29-2013, 04:44 PM	#12
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	I like what I'm seeing. It would display nicely in any collection. Douglas.

07-29-2013, 05:12 PM	#13
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Would you mind telling how you took such perfect photographs with what kind of camera you used in your first set above? Perfect!!~~~~Eric

07-29-2013, 08:23 PM	#14
Thantos User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks for the complement, I guess you could say I am a semipro photographer LOL... I do a lot of photo work with bands on the side so photography is nothing new to me. I used a Nikon D40, (which by today's standards is a relatively low end camera now) with a couple of different lenses. The main thing is to use a controlled light source, I built a light box and diffused the heck out of it to get the lighting correct. The light box was cheap and easy to build out of 1/2" PVC pipe and fittings I think it cost less then $12.00. Then I grabbed one of my wife's red table cloths (had to buy her a new one after I got gun oil all over it, DOH !!!) for a solid background. For a diffuser I used clear (or opaque really) Polyethylene plastic or visquine. Using Visquine allows you to add or subtract layers for more or less diffusion of the light. As to the type of light I used three 40 watt compact DAYLIGHT florescence's and a matching florescent 4' shop light. So about 160 watts of controlled diffused exposure. I used a Nikkor 18.5mm f/1.8 wide-angle lens with 35mm equivalent of 50mm and a Nikon 85mm f/1.4G Classic Portrait Nikkor Lens and a Nikon 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX ED VR II Lens (72mm) Fast glass = great pictures. The whole set up lights, PVC and table cloth was less then $50.00 and I can take it apart and put it up as I need, oh yeah the other thing that really make a world of difference is shooting from a tripod ! ! ! The reason for all of this was that I had purchased a copy of a program called *My Gun DataBase*, that allows you to inventory's all of your weapons for FFL requirements, general collecting, insurance or just all around knowing what you have. With the merger of my collection and my fathers I felt it was time to have an accurate inventory for insurance purposes and obtaining my C&R FFL. Just so everyone knows the key here really is the light box, even a cell phone camera will take amazing pictures with the right light, you don't need a high end camera or lenses, just good lighting !!! Hope this helps if there are more questions please let me know! Here is a pic of my home made light box, kinda shabby looking but it works ! Also here is a link to MGDB if anyone else is interested. http://cmp.mygundb.com/ Thanks, Gene Attached Thumbnails

07-29-2013, 08:39 PM	#16
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	You definitly have got it all together. Your knowledge and ambition really show it off. The Ansel Adams of luger photography. Lighting and a proffesional equipment are the key! Thanks for the tips~~~~Eric

07-29-2013, 11:37 PM	#17
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 168 Times in 96 Posts	Eric: I use the Renaissance wax for lots of gun purposes but I am concerned about it taking off the patina - apparently you aren't having the problem. I use it in the barrel and internal parts of Lugers but not the exterior bluing. I have been cautious because I hadn't heard the old timers say how it reacts to Lugers thanks Jack

07-30-2013, 08:56 AM	#18
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Scary, I'll have to read the prior posts on this topic! TKS

08-02-2013, 11:15 PM	#19
RC20 User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Wonderful pics, Throwing in my less that expert 2 cents worth so anyone feel free to correct me. You will also want to check all the small parts and the numbers to see if they match up. There is a list of those in the facts group, one of the hard ones has got it on top (extractor), I had to pull my extractor to find out as it was underneath (most military Lugers are visible). Firing pin which is actually larger round assembly than than you think when you think firing pin is a hard one to see and being curved makes it interesting (or was for me and I had to clean some gunk out) The magazine is serialed but not the same as the pistol if I am reading it right (not a problem but it is an extra if it does). Looks like the right wooden one for the era. If it has all matching numbers (last two of the serial on the small parts) then it has more value. I would guess more than $1500, looks more like $2000 minimum. Wonderful condition overall. Even well cared for ones got more field wear and tear before they got put away so thats amazing.