A question about a 1917 artillery with sheepskin

cirelaw · 11-10-2013, 10:00 PM

Holster pictured below is on Joe Salters site. Its the holster I've never seen before!!~~Eric

alanint · 11-10-2013, 10:33 PM

Artillery holsters were also made in pebbled skin, (presumably pig) as well as a "corduroy" leather.

George Anderson · 11-10-2013, 11:10 PM

Perfectly legit holster. I have several of them.

cirelaw · 11-11-2013, 09:26 AM

with my Russian?

alanint · 11-11-2013, 10:17 AM

Your Nagant's holster is a synthetic, pebbled to LOOK like leather, but actually made of a rubberized textile. The only real leather on your holster are the tool and belt loops, the pouch, the trim and the closure strap.

cirelaw · 11-11-2013, 10:30 AM

Damn those Russians, TKS

Sergio Natali · 11-11-2013, 10:59 AM

I do not know anything about your synthetic one, but, I'm almost certain that the first one is authentic, I've seen others absolutely genuine that were quite similar, although I'm not sure it's pigskin, as pigskin should be thicker. IMHO

cirelaw · 11-11-2013, 11:01 AM

What kind of ammo does it fire? Is any still available? Lenin's secret police 'The Cheka' later the KGB I'm sure carried these these! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheka

alanint · 11-11-2013, 11:31 AM

Your Nagant has an unusual design, which pushes the cylinder forward to form a gas seal with the barrel's forcing cone. This makes it possible to somewhat effectively suppress this pistol. The original ammunition is a 7.62x38 crimped round, with the entire bullet seated inside the brass case. This crimped design also works toward sealing off the escape of gasses through the gap between cylinder and barrel. I believe an alternative round is the .32 Long, but original ammo is available:

http://ammoseek.com/ammo/7.62x38-nagant-revolver

Ben M. · 11-11-2013, 12:08 PM

pigskin is pigskin and you can see little holes on the other side of the leather. pebbled is just a texture added by some mechanical pressing method to give the finished leather some surface other than smooth.

Patronen · 11-11-2013, 12:34 PM

.32 Long can be used but you run the risk of a sloppy cartridge to cylinder fit resulting in split and bulged cases. I have read accounts of taking clear scotch tape and putting it around the cases to take up some of the loose fit and help the splitting of the cases. .32 ACP conversion cylinders are sometimes available but most require fitting to the gun.

cirelaw · 11-11-2013, 12:35 PM

Heres 2 the one on the right seems a man made print!

alanint · 11-11-2013, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben M.

pigskin is pigskin and you can see little holes on the other side of the leather. pebbled is just a texture added by some mechanical pressing method to give the finished leather some surface other than smooth.

Ben, are you discussing the Artillery or Nagant holster? If it is the Nagant, I can assure that this is a textile, not real leather.

cirelaw · 11-11-2013, 12:58 PM

Doug I have to agree. One thing its not leather. I minored in Russian studies and the condition in Russia during the date of this pistol is 1924 was a country ripe in revolution. The Czar Nicholas was execute along with the entire royal family. The Cheka the soviet police was ruthless abolishing all private ownership. Great shortages of everything. I'm sure Leather was rare and the citizens were hungry. Other alternatives were used had to be used. The movie Dr Drzhivago says it all!!!. It feels like some kind of rubber replacement which would make more sence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_II_of_Russia The secret police http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheka

saab-bob · 11-11-2013, 02:56 PM

Doug
Never thought about a suppressor on a Nagant. Makes sense with that forward moving cylinder.

I have heard about using 32 S & W long in a Nagant. These days, it might be easier to find real Nagant ammo then the 32 ammo.

Bob

alanint · 11-11-2013, 03:11 PM

Here's a short video....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvF4yurWSc0

11-10-2013, 10:00 PM	#1
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	A question about a 1917 artillery with sheepskin Holster pictured below is on Joe Salters site. Its the holster I've never seen before!!~~Eric Attached Thumbnails

11-11-2013, 09:26 AM	#4
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	George is this the same~ with my Russian? Attached Thumbnails

11-11-2013, 10:59 AM	#7
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I do not know anything about your synthetic one, but, I'm almost certain that the first one is authentic, I've seen others absolutely genuine that were quite similar, although I'm not sure it's pigskin, as pigskin should be thicker. IMHO __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

11-11-2013, 11:01 AM	#8
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	What kind of ammo does it fire? Is any still available? Lenin's secret police 'The Cheka' later the KGB I'm sure carried these these! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheka Attached Thumbnails

11-11-2013, 12:34 PM	#11
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	.32 Long can be used but you run the risk of a sloppy cartridge to cylinder fit resulting in split and bulged cases. I have read accounts of taking clear scotch tape and putting it around the cases to take up some of the loose fit and help the splitting of the cases. .32 ACP conversion cylinders are sometimes available but most require fitting to the gun. __________________ Dave

11-10-2013, 10:33 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Artillery holsters were also made in pebbled skin, (presumably pig) as well as a "corduroy" leather.

11-10-2013, 11:10 PM	#3
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	Perfectly legit holster. I have several of them.

11-11-2013, 10:17 AM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Your Nagant's holster is a synthetic, pebbled to LOOK like leather, but actually made of a rubberized textile. The only real leather on your holster are the tool and belt loops, the pouch, the trim and the closure strap.

11-11-2013, 10:30 AM	#6
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Damn those Russians, TKS

11-11-2013, 11:31 AM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Your Nagant has an unusual design, which pushes the cylinder forward to form a gas seal with the barrel's forcing cone. This makes it possible to somewhat effectively suppress this pistol. The original ammunition is a 7.62x38 crimped round, with the entire bullet seated inside the brass case. This crimped design also works toward sealing off the escape of gasses through the gap between cylinder and barrel. I believe an alternative round is the .32 Long, but original ammo is available: http://ammoseek.com/ammo/7.62x38-nagant-revolver

11-11-2013, 12:08 PM	#10
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 488 Thanks: 90 Thanked 123 Times in 83 Posts	pigskin is pigskin and you can see little holes on the other side of the leather. pebbled is just a texture added by some mechanical pressing method to give the finished leather some surface other than smooth.

11-11-2013, 12:35 PM	#12
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Heres 2 the one on the right seems a man made print! Attached Thumbnails

11-11-2013, 12:58 PM	#14
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Doug I have to agree. One thing its not leather. I minored in Russian studies and the condition in Russia during the date of this pistol is 1924 was a country ripe in revolution. The Czar Nicholas was execute along with the entire royal family. The Cheka the soviet police was ruthless abolishing all private ownership. Great shortages of everything. I'm sure Leather was rare and the citizens were hungry. Other alternatives were used had to be used. The movie Dr Drzhivago says it all!!!. It feels like some kind of rubber replacement which would make more sence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_II_of_Russia The secret police http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheka

11-11-2013, 02:56 PM	#15
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Doug Never thought about a suppressor on a Nagant. Makes sense with that forward moving cylinder. I have heard about using 32 S & W long in a Nagant. These days, it might be easier to find real Nagant ammo then the 32 ammo. Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

11-11-2013, 03:11 PM	#16
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Here's a short video.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvF4yurWSc0