Reflex sight... on Luger?

stressed · 02-12-2014, 12:49 AM

We all know the sights suck on Lugers. Question being on an unmatched or refinished shooter, I had a curious thought of how feasible it would be if you got a spare un-numbered repro far back toggle arm, tapped a mount into and mounted a micro reflex sight. (as linked below)

First concern would be the shock of the sight coming back each time it is fired, however if you have a quality model they are quite most "shock proof" and hold their zero, even in such a location. I can attest to this using EOtech's in the military while deployed.

Second would be the feeding of ammo. Obviously the extra weight and mass on the toggle might need more power to cycle, but these are generally almost weightless being made of aluminum. I suppose a lighter wolf recoil spring could be used if it was effected.

I'm sure many might overlook this thread as nonsense, however I mounted a reflex sight on a WWII PPS43 and it was night and day difference.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...RMR_Sight.html

Dwight Gruber · 02-12-2014, 01:35 AM

I'm not sure you realize the G-forces involved in such a location. In addition to the other problems you recognize, there is the issue of the sight flipping completely out of view and having to reaqire it for every shot.

A better idea would be to build a mount attached to the frame which places the sight ove the chamber, just ahead of the breechblock. It is easy to imagine several possible solutions.

--Dwight

Curss · 02-12-2014, 05:48 AM

Maybe an artillery barrel with the leaf sight replaced with the reflex sight? It wouldn't be subjected to the toggle flip Mr. Gruber speaks of and might be easier to mount.

alanint · 02-12-2014, 07:25 AM

Dwight is right. Even if the sight where to survive the first couple of shots riding on a toggle, you would experience an almost immediate loss of zero, followed by breakage.

sheepherder · 02-12-2014, 08:44 AM

Rick W. has a thread or two on a mount that positions the optical sight on the frame. Another member has had the artillery mount for his red dot sight. So it has been done, with some success IIRC.

You mentioned an optical sight while you were in the military. Was it on your M9??? If it was on the M16 it still got affected, just not immediately. When I was in and qualified twice yearly, it was amusing to see how many shooters had their liquid crystal watch displays blown out from the accumulated recoil...

stressed · 02-12-2014, 09:13 AM

This model would mount good, is "traditional German rounded" and is battery-less as in it takes natural light/tritium for night.

They make a mount that snugs over the base of your barrel with top mount, thus putting the sight directly in front of the receiver at the base of the barrel.

With correct MOA sized dot to correct for 4" accuracy at sighted distance, anyone can be a crack shot with a 4" P08. Put the dot on it, and it will have a hole through it.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ight_RX34.html

Sheepherder, It was on my first deployment on an M4. It was beat up pretty well but held it's zero. I was always adjusting it though when range shooting. Used aim point red dot on other deployments.

Dwight Gruber · 02-12-2014, 09:27 AM

Curss,

Mr. Gruber was my Dad. I am

--Dwight

stressed · 02-12-2014, 09:39 AM

Guys, here is an original WWII vintage reflex sight - the Nyder 47. (Reflex sights have been around since 1900)

Curss · 02-12-2014, 01:15 PM

My apologies Dwight!

That's a really cool sight, how much do old ones go for?

stressed · 02-13-2014, 06:10 AM

Alright gents, idea two:

Get an aftermarket un numbered sideplate, weld at 90 degrees then end over just in front of ejection port with picitiny rail.

How solid is sideplate for the weight? iirc mine is a little loose

Dwight Gruber · 02-13-2014, 11:01 AM

Interesting solution. Sideplates are very thin, and they are made of slightly softer metal than the rest of the pistol--may not take too kindly to welding. If you are serious about a project of this depth it might be interesting to fabricate your own rail-mounting sideplate from scratch.

--Dwight

JTD · 02-13-2014, 09:20 PM

Screw it to the side rail, and shoot it gangland style.....

stressed · 02-14-2014, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

I'm not sure you realize the G-forces involved in such a location..

--Dwight

- Shock-resistant to 1000g of recoil force. (And that's the cheaper line)

Of course it would disappear as the toggle flipped back, but then again your normal sight picture is gone when the toggle flips back as well, not to mention the weapon recoiling.

That would be the neatest spot though IMO

lfid · 02-15-2014, 03:03 AM

Rick W -
could you post some pictures of your pseudo navy luger rear target sight ?

and also of the side mounted / precision reattach scope mount on luger ?

sound like interesting variants

thanks
Bill

02-12-2014, 12:49 AM	#1
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	Reflex sight... on Luger? We all know the sights suck on Lugers. Question being on an unmatched or refinished shooter, I had a curious thought of how feasible it would be if you got a spare un-numbered repro far back toggle arm, tapped a mount into and mounted a micro reflex sight. (as linked below) First concern would be the shock of the sight coming back each time it is fired, however if you have a quality model they are quite most "shock proof" and hold their zero, even in such a location. I can attest to this using EOtech's in the military while deployed. Second would be the feeding of ammo. Obviously the extra weight and mass on the toggle might need more power to cycle, but these are generally almost weightless being made of aluminum. I suppose a lighter wolf recoil spring could be used if it was effected. I'm sure many might overlook this thread as nonsense, however I mounted a reflex sight on a WWII PPS43 and it was night and day difference. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...RMR_Sight.html

02-12-2014, 08:44 AM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,183 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	Rick W. has a thread or two on a mount that positions the optical sight on the frame. Another member has had the artillery mount for his red dot sight. So it has been done, with some success IIRC. You mentioned an optical sight while you were in the military. Was it on your M9??? If it was on the M16 it still got affected, just not immediately. When I was in and qualified twice yearly, it was amusing to see how many shooters had their liquid crystal watch displays blown out from the accumulated recoil... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

02-12-2014, 01:35 AM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	I'm not sure you realize the G-forces involved in such a location. In addition to the other problems you recognize, there is the issue of the sight flipping completely out of view and having to reaqire it for every shot. A better idea would be to build a mount attached to the frame which places the sight ove the chamber, just ahead of the breechblock. It is easy to imagine several possible solutions. --Dwight

02-12-2014, 05:48 AM	#3
Curss User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 303 Thanks: 304 Thanked 98 Times in 75 Posts	Maybe an artillery barrel with the leaf sight replaced with the reflex sight? It wouldn't be subjected to the toggle flip Mr. Gruber speaks of and might be easier to mount.

02-12-2014, 07:25 AM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Dwight is right. Even if the sight where to survive the first couple of shots riding on a toggle, you would experience an almost immediate loss of zero, followed by breakage.

02-12-2014, 09:13 AM	#6
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	This model would mount good, is "traditional German rounded" and is battery-less as in it takes natural light/tritium for night. They make a mount that snugs over the base of your barrel with top mount, thus putting the sight directly in front of the receiver at the base of the barrel. With correct MOA sized dot to correct for 4" accuracy at sighted distance, anyone can be a crack shot with a 4" P08. Put the dot on it, and it will have a hole through it. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ight_RX34.html Sheepherder, It was on my first deployment on an M4. It was beat up pretty well but held it's zero. I was always adjusting it though when range shooting. Used aim point red dot on other deployments.

02-12-2014, 09:27 AM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Curss, Mr. Gruber was my Dad. I am --Dwight

02-12-2014, 09:39 AM	#8
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	Guys, here is an original WWII vintage reflex sight - the Nyder 47. (Reflex sights have been around since 1900)

02-12-2014, 01:15 PM	#9
Curss User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 303 Thanks: 304 Thanked 98 Times in 75 Posts	My apologies Dwight! That's a really cool sight, how much do old ones go for?

02-13-2014, 06:10 AM	#10
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	Alright gents, idea two: Get an aftermarket un numbered sideplate, weld at 90 degrees then end over just in front of ejection port with picitiny rail. How solid is sideplate for the weight? iirc mine is a little loose

02-13-2014, 11:01 AM	#11
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,318 Times in 431 Posts	Interesting solution. Sideplates are very thin, and they are made of slightly softer metal than the rest of the pistol--may not take too kindly to welding. If you are serious about a project of this depth it might be interesting to fabricate your own rail-mounting sideplate from scratch. --Dwight

02-13-2014, 09:20 PM	#12
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 425 Thanks: 217 Thanked 408 Times in 149 Posts	Screw it to the side rail, and shoot it gangland style.....

02-15-2014, 03:03 AM	#14
lfid Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS USA Posts: 453 Thanks: 573 Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts	Rick W - could you post some pictures of your pseudo navy luger rear target sight ? and also of the side mounted / precision reattach scope mount on luger ? sound like interesting variants thanks Bill